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SUV Lamborghini did it will Ferrari be the next one?

Discussion in 'FF/GTC4Lusso/F12/812S' started by MDEL, Dec 6, 2017.

  1. Therry

    Therry Karting

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    Lamborghini sales for 2019
    Urus: 4692
    Huracan: 2139
    Aventador: 1104
     
  2. uhn2000

    uhn2000 Formula 3

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    ^ You summarize my thoughts well and I believe I am being demanding hehe.. :) Correct, if they manage to build a Lusso performing car with "4 door access" and a slightly higher seating position (ala Urus) it will be a great start. Lots of other stuff to consider in the SUV/FUV market but that is the minimum platform in my opinion.
     
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  3. MDEL

    MDEL Formula 3
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    The tables below show some of the technical specs. of the GTC4 Lusso as well as the ones of nine of the fastest road SUVs. Despite not being an SUV the GTC4 is longer and wider than the Jeep G.C.T. and the Alfa Romeo Stelvio Q. The Lusso wheelbase is also longer than the one shown on five of the SUVs listed on the tables. Curiously the GTC4 has the second largest fuel tank despite having the smaller internal volume.
    In terms of engine power the Lusso V12 is only marginally overtaken by the Jeep G.C.T and is the fastest car of them all in terms of acceleration. From the SUVs listed the only brand offering a 12 cylinder engine is Bentley the W12 and no one has a V12. Apart from the Alfa Romeo that has a twin-turbo V6 engine all the rest use V8 engines turbocharged. Four of the listed SUVs already offer a 4 wheels steering system like the one equipping the GTC4. The two main features existing on some of these SUVs which don’t equip the Lusso are the hybrid motorization like the one offered on the Porsche Cayenne and also the adaptive suspension that equips the majority of the top SUVs. These adaptive suspensions are able to move SUVs up and down almost 10 cm (4 inches) transforming them from very fast road cars into off-road vehicle when necessary.
    The smallest of the cars shown on the tables is the Stelvio which is more a cross-over than an SUV. But despite having a length and a width that are shorter than the ones of the GTC4, the Stelvio has more height and that's what makes all the difference. The Stelvio also has four doors, has internal space that's enough to seat 5 comfortably and offers a substantially larger boot specially when using the luggage compartment up to the roof. I believe the Purosangue (FUV) will necessarily need to have an height that is minimum 30 cm (12 inches) more than the one of the GTC4. That’s something essential for the Purosangue in order to be able to accomplish what’s expected from an SUV/crossover. Looking at the length and width of the GTC4 my guess is that the Purosangue will have at least the same dimensions but could be longer and larger like the URUS is.

    While we continue waiting to find out how the Purosangue will be I very much look forward reading the different opinions and guesses about this problematic.


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  4. MDEL

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    Enclosed are the PDFs of the two posted tables………….
     

    Attached Files:

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  5. Caeruleus11

    Caeruleus11 F1 Veteran
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    Wow Mario, did you make these charts? Very well done! Thank you! It's fascinating to consider the relative positions of each model.
     
  6. MDEL

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    Yes Jerry I made these charts and I'll explain in a moment the reason why. All my life I've had SUVs and used them most of the time as my daily driving cars. A AWD SUV enables one to drive fast in any kind of weather with a good feeling of safety and versatility. That's probably the number one advantage of these cars when compared with the ones that have just front or rear traction. Another feature that I have on my SUV since 2015 and I very much like is the adaptive pneumatic suspension. I can say that's a great system both in terms of comfort and adaptability to almost any driving conditions. That said I always saw on the GTC4 an FUV because is faster than any existing SUV but also has the AWD and the 4 wheels steering that equip now the best SUVs and Crossovers. To find out what the GTC4 is lacking to be a real SUV/Crossover I made these two charts that compare several parameters of the GTC4 with the nine fastest SUVs. The charts tell us the obvious on a more clear way and we can easily deduct that in order for the GTC4 to become an SUV/crossover to start with it has to have an adaptable suspension that is able to increase considerably the current ground clearance. Because the GTC4 height is typical of a GT, to become an SUV/Crossover I also estimate that the total height of the car will have to be increased at least 30 cm (12 inches). Once that's done and combined with 5 doors, the GTC4 internal space will increase very considerably allowing to seat 5 and have a bigger boot capacity which is a must.
    Since the start of this thread that you've always predicted that the Purosangue would be a kind of lifted GTC4. After this analysis I'm even more convinced that you were right and that the best Purosangue Ferrari could make would be in fact a V12 GTC4 with adaptive pneumatic suspension, bigger wheels and a new body in order to accommodate 5 doors and a larger internal volumetry to seat 5 people.
     
  7. G. Pepper

    G. Pepper F1 World Champ
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  8. red passion

    red passion Formula Junior

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  9. uhn2000

    uhn2000 Formula 3

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    ^^ yes that is so nice! Wow!
     
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  10. maha

    maha Formula 3

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    https://www.automoto.it/news/ferrari-purosangue-i-podisti-non-ci-stanno-il-caso-arriva-in-tribunale.html?fbclid=IwAR1OH575nfu5kErNdC7uJlOgwEJNZDSWMyCY3eX-zfRYHjGje6e1xPquw0M
    Ferrari Thoroughbred? The runners are not there, the case arrives in court
    January 23, 2020 -
    A dispute is underway between Ferrari and ASD Purosangue on the name of the next SUV

    There is a curious dispute that has come to the Court of Bologna. This is the one between Ferrari and the Roman running association ASD Purosangue Athletics Club .


    The object of the dispute is the name "Purosangue" with which the Maranello company has christened its next SUV , which has also been filed with regards to the company's future merchandising.

    According to ASD Thoroughbred, which has also created a clothing line with its name in collaboration with Adidas , by filing the brand, it is a copyright infringement.

    After an unsuccessful attempt at conciliation between the two parties, Ferrari went on the counterattack, asking the Bolognese judges to terminate the association's marks for non-use.



     
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  11. MDEL

    MDEL Formula 3
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    Michael Leiters who is Ferrari’s technical director said recently that the company had found a concept and package for the Purosangue which is one side a real SUV but on the other side there is a huge differentiation of concept to existing SUVs. The Lusso appears to have already everything in order to be the other side of this concept and package that Leiters was talking about however, the Lusso is missing the side that makes it a real SUV.
    When this thread was started in 2017 there have been some respected and knowledgeable Ferraristas that have said that the future SUV could well be a kind of raised Lusso. I completely agree with them and since I have been trying to imagine what the Lusso will require to transform itself into an SUV/FUV.

    The first picture below compares the dimensions of the Lusso with the ones of the Maserati Levante SUV which is bigger than average. We can see that the length of both cars is very similar but in terms of height there is an huge difference. The Levante is roughly 300 mm (12 inches) higher than the GTC4 and this height difference increases considerably the internal volume of the Maserati. Now it's clear that in order for Purosangue to be a real SUV, it has to have a considerably greater height that the GTC4. The next step I did was trying to imagine what could be the Purosangue profile form . But you have to forgive me for the boldness because my car designing talents and knowledge are inexistent. The second picture shows the profile of this imaginary FUV and the third one compares it with the Maserati Levante


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  12. Caeruleus11

    Caeruleus11 F1 Veteran
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    Wow Mario! Thank you for your efforts! You clearly have talent! I think you must be on the right path. I guess we will find out at some point in the future.
     
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  13. WilliamB

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    Yes Mario you have talent and made the nearly perfect 'analyses'! I would see the roof line slanting less than shown in the picture (to increase head + boot space) but for the rest it indeed could be the FUV.
     
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  14. Newjoint

    Newjoint Karting

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    Your analysis is spot on in what is required to create the perfect Ferrari SUV. One vehicle missing though from the chart is the Tesla which trounces the group in the acceleration department though has other major deficiencies. It would be nice to see the FERRARI at least match it if not beat it outright


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
     
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  15. MDEL

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    Jerry thank you for your kind words. We will se if there is any resemblance between this imaginary FUV and the Purosangue. If there is I'll have to claim copy rights from Ferrari.:)
     
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  16. MDEL

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    William thank you for your kind words If we take the Maserati Levante which has a less slanting roof line and integrate it with the imaginary FUV, the result is below and something that looks more like an SUV. Because the head + boot space aspects you pointed appear to be detrimental in a vehicle of this kind, Ferrari designers must have already found a way of designing for the Purosangue a roof line that slants less than the one of the imaginary FUV and which ends on a rear side that doesn't look from an SUV.



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  17. MDEL

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    William thank you for your kind words If we take the Maserati Levante which has a less slanting roof line and integrate it with the imaginary FUV, the result is below and something that looks more like an SUV. Because the head + boot space aspects you pointed appear to be detrimental in a vehicle of this kind, Ferrari designers must have already found a way of designing for the Purosangue a roof line that slants less than the one of the imaginary FUV and which ends on a rear side that doesn't look from an SUV.


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  18. WilliamB

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    Hi Mario, excellent, the adjusted MoDEL is, for me, the closest to the REAL THING of all I have seen thus far. Still recognizable a Ferrari, apparently offering what is to be expected from a SUV. I though also expect a few design 'tricks' as the DBX has presented.
    In comparison with all other car producers in the luxury segment, Ferrari will not be as dependent on the number of cars sold. They still are fine when the FUV does not sell as their best model. I therefore expect it to be considerably higher priced than the Urus. The future will tell :)
     
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  19. MDEL

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  20. maha

    maha Formula 3

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    https://www.ft.com/content/76ef2f66-4375-11ea-a43a-c4b328d9061c
     
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  21. MDEL

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  22. Therry

    Therry Karting

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    In 2019 Ferrari sales 10 131 units, its first ever 10k sale year in Ferrari history
     
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  23. MDEL

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    This jump in Ferrari cars made represented a 9.5 % increase comparatively to 2018 and that's significant. By comparison Lamborghini sold 8205 cars in 2019 and had a jump of 43% from 2018 (5750 cars) due to the Urus success and big numbers sold. I wouldn't be surprised at all if in 2023 Ferrari also experiences a substantial increase in the number of cars produced once the Purosangue will start being delivered at cruising speed.
     
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  24. WilliamB

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    Well Mario, will that not totally depends on its pricing? When they stay close to the Urus price, yes it will raise the numbers considerably. Though, looking at the pricing of all current models, I expect the Purosangue price to be fixed somewhere in the middle. That would make it more expansive and then numbers sold become more questionable. Just hope the basic offering is going to be one which actually can be driven properly, as it is possible that the basic FUV will be a very stripped one and one would need to spend a lot more to finish the car.
     
  25. MDEL

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    William I agree with you, pricing plays an important part on the numbers sold. The Urus base price in Germany and in the UK starts around 200 k Euros therefore I expect that the base price of the Purosangue will be at least 250.000 Euros for the V8 motorization. Once you start adding extras to the base Purosangue as you referred the bill will jump considerably and that's what happens now already with the current Ferrari models.
     
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