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Suspension

Discussion in '308/328' started by Imatk, Nov 30, 2020.

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  1. ginoBBi512

    ginoBBi512 F1 Rookie
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    Oct 9, 2016
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    GINO RUGGIERO

    I bought everything from Ferr Parts Sacramento, including the 4 New Konis and all 4 motor mounts.

    Thank you
     
  2. Nino1964

    Nino1964 Formula Junior
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    Aug 14, 2015
    285
    North Georgia
    I used Nick Forza Urethane bushings and they are very noisy. Easy to install and perform well but they creak and squeak.
     
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  3. Cirorsi

    Cirorsi Formula Junior

    Nov 10, 2016
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    Darn it, but thanks for that info Nino. I definitely don’t want a ride squeaky ride.
     
  4. thorn

    thorn F1 Rookie
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    Aug 7, 2012
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    Poly bushings are a firm ride with great handling. But not quiet. At all.
     
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  5. miketuason

    miketuason F1 World Champ
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    Or you can use original bushings but if you have adjustable coil over shocks, stiffer springs, and larger swaybars, that will also give you great handling and quiet, correct?
     
  6. Brian A

    Brian A F1 Rookie

    Dec 21, 2012
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    How the a-arm bushings affect ride so substantially is a bit of a mystery to me. Why do they have such a big effect?

    To my simplistic thinking, their primary function is just a pivot point. It seems to me that compound can’t much resist the torsional force exerted by the leverage of the a-arm so their impact on handling should be negligible.

    Another mystery to me is why do poly bushings squeak? That would mean there is movement. Aren’t they clamped tightly in place?
     
  7. GordonC

    GordonC F1 Rookie
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    Standard bushings - the outer shell is welded to the arm, and the inner sleeve becomes fixed to the chassis when bolted tight. When the arm moves, the inner sleeve tries to rotate, but the rubber bonded to the inner sleeve and outer shell resists - the only rotation that occurs is due to flexing of the rubber bonded layer. The more it flexes, the higher the resistance. Flex too far, the rubber could conceivably tear, but if in good condition it has enough strength to resist any rotation the car can give. In other words, the rubber stiffness and resistance is a major part of the suspension.

    Poly bushings, meanwhile, DO rotate, they don't rigidly bind the inner sleeve to the outer welded fixed shell. That makes a difference on your suspension tuning (specifically desired spring rates), but that movement of the bushing in the outer shell is what squeaks.

    Gordon
     
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  8. Rod

    Rod Formula Junior

    Jan 18, 2004
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  9. Andy 308GTB

    Andy 308GTB F1 Rookie
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  10. waymar

    waymar Formula 3

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    FWIW when I re-bushed my 308 I used poly lower and OEM upper. Holds alignment very well, satisfied with the ride/handling.
     
  11. nerofer

    nerofer F1 World Champ

    Mar 26, 2011
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    FRANCE
    Nice clean car, Rod...

    Rgds
     
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  12. miketuason

    miketuason F1 World Champ
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    #37 miketuason, Dec 2, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2020
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  13. GordonC

    GordonC F1 Rookie
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    Mike, agreed - I bought the set from MaseratiSource on eBay a few years ago, a fraction of the price of anywhere else. I'll be installing them (along with the QA1 setup) later this winter.

    Gordon
     
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  14. miketuason

    miketuason F1 World Champ
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    When I talked to Jacque (cool guy) from Maserati Source, he said the original bushings is 20% stiffer on the rear compared to the front, he said most people ordered the 20% stiffer bushings for both front and rear, so that’s what I did. Anyway I thought I share this to let everyone know you have options.
     
  15. Nuno Andrade

    Nuno Andrade Karting

    Aug 24, 2019
    154
    Houston
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    Nuno Andrade
    I have installed Nock Forza bushings and they don’t squeak...at least so far.
    I’m in Texas so probably temperature plays a factor, but so far I’m very happy with them


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
     
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  16. miketuason

    miketuason F1 World Champ
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  17. Brian A

    Brian A F1 Rookie

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    Thanks for the detailed explanation. Interesting.

    Your explanation implies that poly bushings, because they rotate, are not part of the spring component of suspension. This would mean that using poly bushings with stock springs softens suspension behavior from factory stock behavior.
     
  18. thorn

    thorn F1 Rookie
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    It's harsher, because the rubber in the bushing is not adding to dampening recoil. Everything is going directly to the springs and the shocks.
     
  19. 4right

    4right F1 Rookie
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  20. daynyc

    daynyc Karting
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    Aug 5, 2016
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    Not trying to persuade, but the Energy Suspension bushings have been dead quiet. There was a thread long ago about the importance of using the extremely viscous silicone they recommend, which, strangely, does not always come with the bushings.,
     
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  21. Brian A

    Brian A F1 Rookie

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    I struggle to understand this. If the poly bushing is rotating then it is not providing any resistive force to the a-arm. It is solely the shock and spring that is providing that force. In other words, the system has become softer (... according to my thinking).

    With stiff poly bushings, I can understand how more road noise would be transmitted to the frame since the road noise would be higher frequency vibration traveling through tire and then suspension system. The road noise would not be lower frequency deflections of the suspension system and hardly any motion within the tire itself.

    I can likewise understand how poly bushings would provide better suspension alignment control since they would not deflect as easily from the spec alignment setting. This seems pretty esoteric however and would expect all but the best of racers could notice. I would expect the erratic deflections of the tires would mask bushing displacement for most people.

    I am just blabbing as a theorist. I’ve only owned one track car and didn’t fuss the tuning much.
     
  22. Glenn308QVturbo

    Sep 20, 2017
    34
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    Glenn Orell
    Automotive manufacturers use rubber bushings to reduce vibrations from transmitting through the suspension to the passenger compartment making the ride quality less harsh. The advantage of the polyurethane bushings are they don’t flex or deflect as much as rubber. By reducing the excess suspension movement, the polyurethane makes the suspension more efficient and more responsive to the driver.

    As for reducing the torsional stiffness in the bushing and softening the overall spring rate it is not necessarily a bad thing. If the suspension is too stiff it will allow the tire to lose contact with the road surface, conversely if there is movement in the suspension the tire will follow the road surface maintaining contact. On some cars a softer spring and a heavier sway bar will improve handling significantly. In this case I doubt the change is negligible.

    I used polyurethane bushings in my 308 for cost and ease of replacement considerations. The handling characteristic’s were night and day, but my stock bushings were shot so it’s not a fair comparison. I agree that for the average street driven car the difference is probably minimal.

    As for noise I used the supplied grease that came with the Energy Suspension Bushings and so far after two years have not noticed any squeaking noises coming from the suspension. Overall I’m very happy with the Poly bushings and would use them again.
     
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  23. ginoBBi512

    ginoBBi512 F1 Rookie
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    The 308 / 328 design resulted in a 60 / 40 rear to front % weight bias, so these cars have that as a final limitation when it comes to handling, now with that being said, its a hell of a design, because these 30 plus year old cars can still carve up a canyon road like its nobodies business, and are more fun than 95 % of whats out there, no matter whats your bushing.

    Thank you
     
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  24. kcabpilot

    kcabpilot Formula 3

    Apr 17, 2014
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    Personally I don't think the 40/60 weight bias creates handling limitations. For me the car feels much better planted in turns if you are either neutral or accelerating rather than on the brakes which would push it more towards a 50/50 split.
     
  25. Brian A

    Brian A F1 Rookie

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