Suspension Rebuild Begins...And then some | Page 2 | FerrariChat

Suspension Rebuild Begins...And then some

Discussion in '308/328' started by jimshadow, Mar 16, 2008.

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  1. jimshadow

    jimshadow F1 Veteran
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Feb 19, 2006
    6,230
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    JIM
    Any product recommendations for this?

    I'm still debating black, though I like the bare metal look...

    JIM
     
  2. desire308

    desire308 Formula 3

    Oct 19, 2007
    1,433
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    Peter W
    If painting black use an anti rust semi matt in a rattle can. If just coating get some clear laquer in a rattle can. It may start to show rust if you chip the coating and/or as it wears off. Some other members may know of a better clear? Also would be good to know what factory was [I imagine black].
     
  3. Spitfire

    Spitfire Formula 3

    Nov 16, 2006
    1,602
    Surely the drop links are aluminum? No problems with rust on these!
     
  4. 308tr6

    308tr6 Formula Junior

    Dec 23, 2003
    466
    SDakota
    Full Name:
    Rico
    These little links will be fine as I believe they are cast aluminum. I have a blast cabinet, and do aluminum pieces sometimes with walnut shells and then just leave them, or you can spray a nice clear coat on them, in which case I would probably bead blast first (gives more uniform look, kinda satin like, but then the clear makes 'em pretty). If you blast aluminum with anything stronger than walnuts, and then just leave it, it often has a fairly "sugary" texture and will hold dirt and grime pretty bad if untreated.

    The bigger job is coming with all your A-arms and such, in which case I would recommend a glass bead or perhaps more aggressive blast media to get everything off and any rust. Then I personally would POR 15 it all. You can brush it on and it flows very nice. I did all mine like this as well as a couple previous restorations with very nice results. It is so nice to put fresh clean pretty parts back together rather than the grime...
     
  5. chrismorse

    chrismorse Formula 3

    Feb 16, 2004
    2,150
    way north california
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    chris morse
    Hi Jim,

    Are you going to cut the welds and pess out the old bushings and sleeves or burn them out with heat or chemicals?

    If you are going to QA-1s, what spring rate are you going for f/r?? If you bump the rate much, you might want to upgrade the bars and skip the stock drop link overhaul.

    If your rubber brake lines are 20+ years old, you might want to take this opportunity to upgrade to stainless, particularly if you are going to drive it hard or track it. Every little bit helps.

    Are you using Verell's paper weights or are you clearancing the upper front arm.

    If you are using the QA-1s, do you have unobtanium supply's adaptor bushigs. There has been at least one report of cracked rear upright housings by trying to shortcut with washers. Don't do it!

    And finally, do you have an alignment guy with scales, so you can adjust the spring perches for correct corner weight?? You might be able to do without this adjustment if you are only cruising with the new shocks.

    I and others, (not all), have had a bit of spring settling, which necessitates redoing the spring perch height and alignment (if not the corner weighting as well).

    It is great to be able to lower the car just the right amount so it doesn't bottom out on what ever roads you are driving.

    hth,
    chris
     
  6. Peter

    Peter F1 Veteran
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    Dec 21, 2000
    6,440
    B.C., Canada
    Krylon clear enamel is an excellent, tough top coat and it should be able to provide a durable finish on bare metal (paint sticks best if the surface is rough though).

    I used it after painting my wheels and it's held up very well after 7+ years (no fading, yellowing, scratches, etc...).
     
  7. jimshadow

    jimshadow F1 Veteran
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    Feb 19, 2006
    6,230
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    JIM


    Chris,

    I'm going to press out the old rubber and use the existing sleeve that's already welded. (the way that Birdman and JWISE did theirs) I do have both styles of bushings, so if anyone has an opinion on 1 vs. the other lets hear it! From what I've read the ES method is the way to go. I obtained the stock style bushings as part of the MaseratiSource kit that was on Ebay with the ball joints. (Those are getting replaced too!)

    I AM going with QA-1's, though I have not ordered them yet. I have 308GTS sway bars for the car along with new poly bushings waiting to go on front and rear. I have not decided 100% on spring rates. HANS is using 300/300 with his and says he LOVES it although he has mentioned the rears can sometimes top out going over a bump. Any thoughts/ideas on this issue?

    I own a set of the infamous paperweights with the bushings. I grabbed those up at the last group buy so they have literally been 'paperweights' on my desk for a while. :)

    The local Porsche shop down the block will do the alignment. I won't be tracking the car, only spirited driving, so I think I'll be ok there.

    My brake lines were replaced 3 years ago when all 4 calipers were rebuilt. I'd like to go with SS, but that's for another project.

    I appreciate the thoughts and questions! Keep them coming. We are supposed to get another blast of winter tonight so I'll be working all weekend on the car for sure! More pics to come.

    JIM
     
  8. jimshadow

    jimshadow F1 Veteran
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    Feb 19, 2006
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    #33 jimshadow, Mar 22, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Well, I was out in the garage at 7am with the intention of tearing down everything on both sides of the car and pulling the steering rack. I'm 2/3 there! After a couple long breaks in the action (errands, new tools, running kids around, groceries, dinner, etc...) I'm getting ready to head back out. 1st some pics....

    The drivers side suspension took about 2.75 or so hours to get out after a slow, careful start. The thing that held me up was the "S" shaped hard brake lines. I was afraid to tug too hard to get them out. What was happening was that the bulb end was catching on the threads. They need to be pushed down as you remove them on my car, or as I found out on the Pass. side, loosen the castle nut on the upper ball joint and separate the brake line junction from the bracket here. (I don't think all 308's are set up this way...) The passenger side took all of an hour.

    Everything was pretty straight forward. I did notice LOTS of dirt on the lower control arms. I am wondering if someone has had this car off the road in the past. I can't believe that much dirt would accumulate there....(The pic. only shows a portion of what I scraped away...!) The only problem area is 1 stripped A-Arm bolt. Should be an easy replacement. Other than that I did have to cut the pins that secure the castle nuts on the lower ball joints. They were in a precarious spot, so I cut the ends off and pulled them out the other side... The Tie Rod ends came off very easy. I left the nut on the last 2 or 3 threads and gave it a gentle tap with a rubber mallet and they popped right out.

    The last 3 pics show the bushing guts that came in the mail today. I have put my traditional suspension bushings on Ebay
    (Here incase anyone is interested: http://tinyurl.com/227m95)
    and will go with the Birdman/JWise method of using the welded sleeve. I'm very excited!!!

    I need some suggestions on separating the ball joints from the hub carrier. I bought a ball joint tool but its not doing it. I'm letting them soak in penetrating oil and I'll try again tomorrow.

    The A-Arms look dirtier than I thought and now I'm defintely going to have them blasted and either paint them or have them powder coated. (Any suggestions here? lets hear 'em!)

    I'll post the steering rack pics when I get it out.

    :)

    JIM
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  9. Jdubbya

    Jdubbya The $10 Trillion Man
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    Dec 28, 2003
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    I was told the drop links were cast magnesium when I had to buy a new one. They could be aluminum and they just told me that to justify the cost too though!! ;)

    Looking good Jim. I've done 2/3 of what you are but haven't done the A arm bushings or steering rack yet!
     
  10. skipgt4

    skipgt4 Formula Junior

    Nov 3, 2003
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    GR Michigan
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    Charles VDB
    jIM,
    If you bring the A arms to a chemical stripper you can clean them up and get rid of the rubber bushings at the same time.
     
  11. Peter

    Peter F1 Veteran
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    Dec 21, 2000
    6,440
    B.C., Canada
    Try the ball-joint separator fork tool again, but you'll probably find it's going to take more than that to pop those babies...

    I used a porta-power with one of those duck-bill spreaders, pressed up against the ball-joint stem nut (back the nut off to allow it to pop off, but don't take it off completely. It'll give the spreader some surface to butt-up against) and the other pressed against the kingpin boss (hard to describe, but it is part of the steering knuckle, located immediately behind the kingpin). Be careful when applying pressure as it may jump off these parts if they are not well-located. With pressure applied and the tool secure, take an air-chissel/hammer with a blunt/flat chissel bit and rattle the end of the knuckle where the ball-joint attaches and it should pop off then.
     
  12. Peter

    Peter F1 Veteran
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    Dec 21, 2000
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    #37 Peter, Mar 23, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I've seen all of these drop links being posted on this site and I'm quite intrigued that they're always this I-Beam type and yet, the ones on my car are forged steel rods. Considering the dirt and rust, I believe these are original:
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  13. Hans

    Hans F1 Veteran

    Feb 17, 2006
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    Jim,

    You've got me inspired! This is definately going to be my project for next winter...
     
  14. Spitfire

    Spitfire Formula 3

    Nov 16, 2006
    1,602
    Hi Jim,

    Have fun with this. I just finished my suspension rebuild yesterday. Not sure how it all works yet, as the car's still up on blocks and we've got several feet of snow to thaw before I venture out onto the roads.

    I went the common route:

    1. ES bushings
    2. QA1 shocks and springs
    3. Verell's paperweights
    4. Also had my A arms and sway bars blasted and powercoated
    5. New silentblock bushings for drop links
    6. etc. etc.

    From a technical point of view, I don't think there's much that's really difficult about this job. I will confess to quite a bit of grunting and swearing at various stages however!

    When you get to the front end, you'll notice there are top and bottom shims that slide between the ends of the A arms and the ball joints. If you look at the parts book you'll see that top and bottom shims have different part numbers. Don't get these mixed up -- I put my lower shims in the wrong way around and it took me over an hour to figure out why I couldn't slide the bolt through no matter how much I jiggled everything. Hard to explain -- just look at the shims you take off and you'll see that they are different, and that it's especially important to get the lower shims in the right way around.

    You've got a nice little press by the looks of it -- I burned out my old bushings ... probably not very environmentally friendly of me, but it worked a treat.

    Again, have fun.
     
  15. jimshadow

    jimshadow F1 Veteran
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    Feb 19, 2006
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    Thanks for the advice!!!!
    I had read about the importance of making sure those shims go back on the way they came off. I've got them marked right now. I'll probablly mark on the actual shim with a marker so there is no forgetting!

    Can't wait to hear about how your car behaves when you get un-buried! I'm excited to get mine finished, although I'm a ways off. No working on it today, and I'm transferring territories at work so we'll see how this goes. The timeline is getting stretched out a little. :)

    JIM
     
  16. Spitfire

    Spitfire Formula 3

    Nov 16, 2006
    1,602
    Hi Jim,

    I really took my time over everything -- partly because we've had an exceptionally long and severe winter this year (so there was no rush), but also because I've done a lot of traveling. I don't mind confessing that I'm very satisfied with myself now that it's all back together. I know for sure that it's going to be a vast improvement over the pre-rebuild handling ... by just how much remains to be seen.

    I'm starting off with the dampers set to 4/12 to give a slightly more gentle ride. Might tighten it up a bit, but our roads really are terrible compared with US roads. I also started off 1" higher on my ride height than Birdman ... for much the same reason ... i.e., the terrible state of our roads.

    I'm keen to follow your progress on this.

    Bye,

    Simon.
     
  17. gerritv

    gerritv Formula 3

    Jun 18, 2001
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    #42 gerritv, Mar 23, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Using spreaders and forks on the tie rods ends will destroy your rubber boots. I used this method. Apply pressure using the jack, then whack the upright casting where the tapered bolt goes through (the usual hammer on one side, hit with a second hammer on opposite side). Leave the nut on, otherwise everything just flies around when it pops loose.

    Gerrit
    http://dino308gt4.com
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  18. jimshadow

    jimshadow F1 Veteran
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    AH HA! I'll use the bottle jack from my new press along with the ball joint tool. That should work. I have new ball joints (MUCH NEEDED!) so I don't care if the old boots get destroyed. :)

    Thanks for posting Gerrit!

    JIM
     
  19. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

    Oct 31, 2003
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    He's got me feeling ashamed......I think every piece on my car's suspension is in worse shape and I'm letting it go at least another year :(
     
  20. jimshadow

    jimshadow F1 Veteran
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    Uhhhh, Mark....I think that you have a good excuse as to why! :)
    Keep that Monster Motor coming! The suspension can wait...

    JIM
     
  21. Peter

    Peter F1 Veteran
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    Dec 21, 2000
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    I tried that too Gerrit and they didn't budge for me. That's when I resorted to the procedure I wrote a few posts back in this thread...
     
  22. jimshadow

    jimshadow F1 Veteran
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    Ok, MEGA frustration tonight! First I cannot get the steering rack out. I've loosened the coupler nut where the steering column attaches to the rack. I've also loosened the nut on the inside of the car at the bottom of the column AND the one above it at the universal joint. I can get the column to slide up about 3/4 of the way that it needs to go to separate from the rack and that is it! I've sprayed some penetrating oil and will let it sit for a day or so... any other ideas?


    Secondly, I can't get the ball joints apart from the hub carrier. I may have to source this out. I've bent the ball joint tool trying to use it to get things separated. My bottle jack won't fit properly and I don't have any other type of hydraulics to get them apart. :(

    I'd like to get the ball joints off and get these parts to the strip/powdercoating place by Friday....
    Suggestions are welcomed!

    JIM
     
  23. Peter

    Peter F1 Veteran
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    Dec 21, 2000
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    You must have glanced past this post of mine. This method worked for me and worked like a charm (believe me, mine were #@!$% tight too):

    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showpost.php?p=137566018&postcount=36

    As for the Porta Power tool with the "duck-bill" spreader that I mention, if you're up to buying more tools (one can never have too many tools to clutter up one's garage! ;) ), here's something similar to what I used (the "duck-bill" spreader is the wedge-shaped tool in the middle of the picture):

    http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=44900

    And as for the air-chissel/hammer, those can be had quite cheap and if you don't have a compressor, you can rent one for the day from places like Home Depot...
     
  24. jimshadow

    jimshadow F1 Veteran
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    #49 jimshadow, Mar 27, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    WOW, what a PITA! This will not be the same for later cars as they already have the new style mounts, however, getting this rack out was a MAJOR PAIN! There is very little clearance to get your hands in there with a wrench and turn the nuts holding the rack. Then, it was difficult to disconnect the steering column from the spline shaft on the rack due to my column not wanting to move vertically. I solved the steering column problem by soaking the slider shaft (inside the car, below the bottom universal joint) in penetrating oil for 2 days. Then, I gave the column very gentle taps with a hammer as I tried moving the column off of the spline shaft.

    FYI, there is next to no clearance to move the rack once the brackets are off and the spline shaft is disconnected!
    At first I thought I was going to have to remove the brake lines that are mounted to the firewall because they are in the way of removing the rack and mounting brackets. I thought this because I could not get the nuts off of the back side of the frame mount. (see picture) The trick is to use a 1/4 drive wrench with a short 13mm socket on the bottom nut. Once out you can wiggle the mounting bracket off of the bottom pin and twist it around to get the top 1/2 off. Once the brackets were out of the way, I had room to remove the steering rack from the drivers side.
    If your rack is leaking, this is a dirty job, so stock up on vinyl gloves ahead of time (I've used 2 boxes so far!) I still have to get the upper mountin pins off, but atleast the rack is out and I'll be able to proceed from here!

    In the last picture you can see the rubber shim that goes inbetween the rack mount and the frame mount. The one on the drivers side was completely disintegrated!!! I'll have a much firmer steering with a lot more feel when I'm done!
    Now its time to clean up my work area, get the remaining pins out and start removing the A-Arm bushings. :)

    JIM
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  25. w.Hudkins

    w.Hudkins Karting

    May 16, 2006
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    Bravo !!!!!
     

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