Super cool HID Light Bulb upgrade!

Pics on car please....

 

I thought that the low beams on the 360 and 430 were already HID? I know that mine are.

 

My euro came with incandescent.. which I promptly replaced with Xentec HID ballast and bulbs. So the HID's that you used.. is that just the bulb or the ballast AND bulb together?

 

Wonder if your 360 came with incandescent because it's a euro. I have a 1999 360, I'll have to check mine when I get a chance. Just a bulb swap would be easy.

 

Cant find the earlier thread in Fchat; however, it was talked about. As I recall, all NA cars came with HID and the earlier Euro cars didnt. Since some of them wound up in the US we see this non-HID version in NA on occation.

 

Whiter doesn't mean brighter. The optimal color temp is around 4300 degrees Kelvin. As you go to the bluer end of the color temp range (e.g. 6000 degrees K), your ability to see falls off. There are many articles on this. Most of us don't drive much at night with these cars, but for those who do, beware the attraction of the whiter lights. They only look "better." BMW and Mercedes equip their cars with 4300 degree K bulbs, too. If you see a BMW or Mercedes with significantly whiter lights, they're probably aftermarket. Check out www.HIDplanet.com.

 

My car was a south Florida car for most of its life so... anything is possible.

I wouldn't be surprised if it came from factory stock with Incandescent. I do seem to remember the OEM ballast mounting point on the inner fender though... Projector headlamps do work well with the cheapie HIDs I installed, only issue is that even though I went with a 5k bulb it still seems a bit dim, not the "blast of light" that I expected..

 

+ 1

 

Funny you say this...I am actually really frustrated with the aftermarket products *because* they push the 6000K bulb temp rather than the 4300K. The whiter version is much more difficult to see with.

 

Interesting. The blue hue is cool.. but I'd trade it for visibility. The newer HID systems seem to really pump it out with that cool bluish hue at distance..

 

Blue is higher kelvin (often confused with "whiter" - like I referred to in my post); however, its not as "bright". Comparatively, the 4300K is closer to mid day sunshine; the 6000K is closer to a cloudy day. I attached a chart that provides a better frame of referernce that I found on a quick Google search. The more blue the hue, the more difficult you can expect it to see with.
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I am sorry but this is bothering me;

1. You state that 4300 is closer to "mid day sunshine" yet in your attached graphic "sun direct at noon" is 5000-5400, midpoint 5200.
a. The delta between 6000 and 5200 is 800 deg K.
b. The delta between 4300 and 5200 is 900 deg K.
So what do you mean by "closer?"

2. I can see much better on an overcast day personally. Noon direct lighting is tough, causing hard shadows and really needs you eyes full use of contrast. As most photographers agree, a cloudy day is like a great big soft box and the lighting is much better for photography. IMO its also much better to see because your eyes don't need to work as hard to differentiate between very bright and non-bright regions.

3. 4300k is ~6% brighter than 6000k for our specific HID application. Note that higher Kelvin != less light in general, just in our application. This is because of the kelvin system uses a theoretical black box radiator, but I will concede that in this application it is 6% dimmer going from 4300 to 6000.
4300K - 3600 (lm)
6000K - 3400 (lm)
8000K - 2600 (lm)
10000K - 2400 (lm)
12000k - 2000 (lm)

4. 6000k is generally classified as "white light" where 8000k is generally classified as "white light with blue tone" and pure blue starts at 10,000k. So when you state "blue is higher kelvin" I think what you mean is that the higher the Kelvin the more the light moves towards the blue part of the spectrum. Note that 3000k is not bluer than 2000k, in fact neither of them appear blue.
As for RGB content:
...................Kelvin..Red..Green..Blue
High Noon Sun 5400k 255, 255, 251
Direct Sunlight 6000k 255, 255, 255
Overcast Sky 7000 201, 226, 255
Clear Blue Sky 20000 64, 156, 255
->Note you are not really increasing the blue content of the light, but decreasing the red and green content, interesting indeed.

5. On a chromaticity map [ chart ] CIE-1976, the white point corresponds to just about 6000k. Some CIE Charts vary slightly.

6. Your chart was designed to be used to set your cameras color balance, not to indicate actual color of the light.

Would I give up 6% in brightness to have a pure white bulb because I think it looks "cool"; likely, but thats clearly a personal decision, not a decision based on safety. I rarely drive my F430 at night, and when I do I am not driving it at the edge of visibility, more of a slow and low date night, the chicks dig that more than scaring them to death.

CIE Chromaticity Chart from: http://www.color-theory-phenomena.nl/10.03.htm
Headlight Images from: http://www.automotivelightstore.com/hidfaq.aspx

**Yes I am a Physicist by education, photographer by hobby, and the love of Ferraris is in the blood.
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wow - great imformation. And a trifecta as a background of knowledge. I am one for 3 in terms of your background but I dont think I am saying anything too much different than you; however, you said it with a different perspective. Let me clarify just a couple of things:

1. For my vision, if I have trouble reading or seeing things in a dim or less lighted environment, I turn the light up. Over exposure or too much light can create an adverse effect hence why we have sunglasses for bright sunny days. That said, I don't think anyone wears sunglasses at night, despite the song, so my assumption here is that with headlights we would go with what would produce better visible light.

For the first comparison of light compared to the median of 5200K, in my example I am assuming that 5200K is not the ideal temp. Im thinking more towards the "mid afternoon sun" that your graphic depicts at 4500K - this seems to follow most mainstream logic as a time during the day were it would be easiest to see...remember the rule of never buying a car in the late afternoon sun because it hides the defects....this is short of looking directly into the sun etc. Therefore, 4300K is 200 deg K from the ideal condition rather than the 1700 deg K delta that 6000K presents.

2. Photography and creating the ideal shot almost always involved lighting manipulation. In that, I agree that creating the perfect photo and direct sunlight are opposites. Except for shading from direct light, one cannot manage it so I cant imagine direct lighting being any photographers friend.

All of your other points are perspective (short of the charts etc of course). I wouldnt be able to comment on your driving style and whether its safe compared to mine or the OP - I would say that its always important to drive within your ability to see...and if a light gives you less vision but a "cooler" and not considered unsafe its choice go for it. I dont think that should be confused with it giving more light or a better light for vision - that doesnt seem to be the case.

 

Great information here guys. I just oredered 6000k and 8000k. I just figure for $20 or so dollars I'll try both against the oem's and pick the one that looks best (to me)

Thanks to all for the ideas, links and information.....

 

You're pretty much spot on. But the perceived color has a lot to do with the projector type itself and the spacing of the lens. Long story short, newer MB/BMWs/etc have much, MUCH better projectors than previous generations, yet still give off a pure white/hint of blue light even with 4300K HID bulbs. Look at any late 2000s Range Rovers, for example - they have a beautiful white/blue color when the car is oncoming and yet still use a 4300K bulb. This is called the "flicker" effect. As Need4Spd posted, read up on HIDplanet.com to really learn what's going on here.

For older cars (ie. most 360s/430s, or any pre-2007 as a general guideline), consider using the OSRAM Cool Blue Intense Xenarc. They're pricey compared to regular or random Chinese HID bulbs, and will obviously last much longer with less of a color shift with usage.

 

becareful on those cheap hid bulb form fleabay. They are cheap made in China stuff that doesn last long or might explode in your assembly scratch the heck out of it. Buy philips/osram or other name brand, not woth saving $40 over it.

and yeah those higher color temp will always not as good as 4800-6000 on lighting up the road. This is like so old school topic about 8000k looks nice but not really lighting up as good as 4800k.

 

I can agree that the more pricey bulbs are in the get what you pay for category

 

Pricey indeed. Funny though, the rate at 5000K not 6000K. Maybe its a happy medium between the color effect and being able to see as well as with the 4300K.

 

THANK YOU FOR YOUR EXCELLENT ADVICE ON THE UPGRADED BULBS.
I HAVE ONE BURNED OUT AND DECIDED TO PURCHASE BOTH OOF THE ONES YOU MENTIONED.
NOW I HOPE I CAN INSTALL EM!!!!!

ANTHONY
BENTLEY2FERRARI SO CAL.