Straight pipes go on my 400i today | Page 2 | FerrariChat

Straight pipes go on my 400i today

Discussion in '365 GT4 2+2/400/412' started by Newman, Jun 17, 2016.

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  1. samsaprunoff

    samsaprunoff F1 Rookie
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    #26 samsaprunoff, Jun 28, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  2. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    #27 Newman, Jun 28, 2016
    The 412 center section has ferrari stamped in it.
     
  3. blkprlz

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    #28 blkprlz, Jun 28, 2016
    Thanks! I'm checking with GT Auto in AZ for their $$...

    What puzzles me is that the 400 & 400i center's had an H-pipe between the 1st & 2nd muffler but the 412 centers didn't (nor did the 365's centers). Plus, the 400's had 3 center mufflers while the 365 & 412 had 2. I wonder if Ferrari ever got the exhaust dialed-in on the 412 :confused:
     
  4. blkprlz

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    #29 blkprlz, Jun 28, 2016
    Interestingly enough, Tubi's center section set-up does not contain the H-pipe.
     
  5. Newman

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    #30 Newman, Jun 28, 2016
    I can only assume the additional small pipes from the headers to the edges of the front mufflers are for sound cancellation to get a specific sound. Boxers have them too. They eliminated them on the 412 system.
     
  6. Ak Jim

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    #31 Ak Jim, Jun 28, 2016
    Notice any difference in the way the engine runs?
     
  7. Arvid

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    #32 Arvid, Jun 29, 2016
    I always wanted to install a X-pipe instead of the H but not much space available between the mufflers. Should perform better with better flow. My Stebro did not come with the small blow-by pipes. Always wondered if they are for smoother engine operation or just a sound modifier.
     
  8. Newman

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    #33 Newman, Jun 29, 2016
    No it just sounds like a 12 cylinder now! I have a few ideas for the center straight pipes to tweak the sound. I'll post pics.

    Like a Dino or a 250GTE, neither can get out of their own way but they sound great trying. My 400i is no different.
     
  9. Newman

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    #34 Newman, Jul 6, 2016
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    My new merge pipes came in today so tomorrow I'll install them which will act like a long version of an x-pipe. Currently running 4 straight pipes with Oem mufflers. I'll see how it alters the sound then I have an option to add an H-pipe later to join the left and right banks. Not sure how that h-pipe will alter the sound but I'm not looking for more power, just a sound I like.
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  10. Ak Jim

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    #35 Ak Jim, Jul 6, 2016
    Thanks for keeping us up to speed on this. Very curious to see how the X pipe changes things.
     
  11. Newman

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    #36 Newman, Jul 7, 2016
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    I added the 4 merge pipes as you can see here. The front two are really what is serving the purpose to get the 3 and 3 to mix together and the rear 2 are just to work with the OEM mufflers. I ran the 2 long 2.5" straight pipes so I had the option of adding a balance H-pipe between the banks if I wanted to continue experimenting.

    The down-side to the balance pipe is the banks are now blended which takes away the ability to isolate or tune one bank easily and it reduces ground clearance.

    So the results are awesome! I love the sound. I wouldn't want it any louder because it wouldn't suit the car but its not quiet by any means. Inside the cabin the sound is at the back of the car, zero drone inside. The collector arrangement has made the sound warmer and smoothed out the pulses. Sounds like a 12 and I hear it bounce off on-coming cars very nicely. No desire to experiment further.
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  12. blkprlz

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    #37 blkprlz, Jul 7, 2016
    I don't think you want to connect the right bank with the left bank with an H-pipe. The factory set-up was an H-pipe connecting cylinders 1-3 & 4-6 between the 1st & 2nd center section mufflers, same for cylinders 7-9 & 10-12. I feel the X-pipe 'within' each bank is more efficient than the H-pipe. I'm getting ready to change out my original headers with SS headers, but from there on, I want mild steel to finish the exhaust. Pretty much the same set-up as yours but with a Caribou style X-pipe in the center section.

    Refer to my post (#25) in this thread for Ferrari cross-section details of stock exhaust & Christian's post (#30) for Caribou's X-pipe exhaust work on the 411hp Daytona:
    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/365-gt4-2-2-400-412/454852-mufflers-2.html

    Oh, if you notice, they blanked out the small balancing pipe outputs on the headers!

    Looking forward to the audibles of your video post!
     
  13. Newman

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    #38 Newman, Jul 7, 2016
    I would only be seeking a particular sound by adding the h-pipe and nothing more. It could be advantageous but I'm happy with it now. Just got back from another spin and it's great.
     
  14. Il Tifoso

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    #39 Il Tifoso, Jul 7, 2016
    Newman, any noticeable performance difference with the X set up? It seems like it would be more restricted with the 2 into 1 and then back out to 2.

    My car ('86 412 that's been through the CARB certification process when it was new) has a similar set up to what you've done as the catalytic converter is a single entry with dual exits, effectively creating an X pipe like what you've got... Mine however has the stock mufflers aft of the cat.

    I've often wondered if that X set up in my car is restrictive though. Would appreciate your insights with your car.


    Cheers!

    Ruben
     
  15. Newman

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    #40 Newman, Jul 8, 2016
    I always used to think that exhaust was the key to unlocking massive amounts of power. You see new cars with single exhaust and quiet as a mouse yet they make a ton of power. That goes against everything I thought as a kid growing up fiddling on cars in my driveway. To answer your question about the single 2.5" pipe being a restriction I say no and if it was it might actually improve throttle response. Some cars make more power adding a converter into the system. Using my old 97 Camaro SS as an example which came with a 3" single exhaust pipe going into one muffler with 2 outlets flows more than a pair of 2.5" pipes and that was proven by SLP back then. My Ferrari 4.8L engine split in half is a 2.4L 6 cyl relying on a 2.5" pipe that produces 150HP. The 2.5" pipe is over-kill. A GT500 supersnake runs a pair of 2.5" pipes and makes over 800HP. Running an X or and H pipe determines the sound and has a small effect on power levels because the firing order means exhaust pulses can get backed up. The balance pipe offers an alternate path for that build-up. The X helps scavenge more than and H. Question is would an H pipe on my 12 with alternate bank firing need that alternate path to the other bank's exhaust providing a small bump in power?

    I noticed no gains with my butt-ometer but the sound is quite nice.
     
  16. roger21

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    #41 roger21, Jul 8, 2016
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    Finally managed to post videos on YouTube.

    Can't figure how it sounds without any muffler.

    My exhaust has been "modified" by the last owner (well, he wanted to avoid buying a new one...).
    They cut off one of the three central muffler and replaced it by a straight pipe (see photo below that's the only one I've got)

    I love the sound which is a bit more aggressive than the original Ansa sound but not too loud and allows me to speak with my passengers while driving.

    Don't know if I would be happy with more noise as it already makes people turn over to the car a long time before I arrive... :)

    So, two links, one at idle https://youtu.be/zjXPwNKOM3U
    One in second gear, window opened https://youtu.be/KnA9pIAGlMc

    BTW, could you explain me what difference you make between "muffler" and "resonator"?
    I am not a mechanic and could not find anything in English/French dictionaries... Thank you!
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  17. blkprlz

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    #42 blkprlz, Jul 8, 2016
  18. roger21

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    #43 roger21, Jul 8, 2016
    Thanks blkprlz!
    So, on 400s, 3 mufflers and 1 resonator?!
     
  19. Il Tifoso

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    #44 Il Tifoso, Jul 8, 2016
    Thanks Newman, interesting observations. Glad to know the butt dyno noticed no difference and it sounds great. Seems like a win-win!

    Cheers!

    Ruben
     
  20. blkprlz

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    #45 blkprlz, Jul 8, 2016
    My understanding is the 3 center section cans are mufflers & the rear is a resonator.
     
  21. Newman

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    #46 Newman, Jul 8, 2016
    To me a muffler reduces the db level by changing flow direction and introduces noise cancelling. A resonator removes resonance or a leftover undesirable characteristic after the noise has been reduced. It does this through a perforated or louvered straight through pipe without changing flow direction or cancelling sound waves. All 8 "things" on a 400 exhaust are like a resonator.
     
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