Sports Car for a high schooler | Page 5 | FerrariChat

Sports Car for a high schooler

Discussion in 'General Automotive Discussion' started by Ilya, Dec 20, 2004.

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  1. stephens

    stephens F1 Rookie
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    Feb 13, 2004
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    Stephen S
    Interesting analysis, no ravers in your group?
    I would be extremely surprised to see, in a group of 100 25 year olds, less than 75 who have participated in some illicit activities. When I was at uni, the number was closer to 100! What I have found is that the same person will give a different answer depending on the perceived morality of the group they are with. That damn peer pressure issue raising its ugly head again.
     
  2. Auraraptor

    Auraraptor F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Sep 25, 2002
    13,196
    MO
    That is very sad if the numbers are that high. (Also clean here, no alcohol either all my life).

    In my experiance it is not that high, but I would hardly consider my experiance the example of the norm...
     
  3. stephens

    stephens F1 Rookie
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    After he got over the no turbo rule, he really wanted the Integra Type R, a friend whose brother is one of the partners of Carlins, dropped the car off to me a week ago to check out, so just as much co-incidence as anything.


    Clubman Light - Arrow AX8


    I couldn't answer the question without knowing how old you are? Is it relevant to the issue of teenage driver responsibility and peer pressure?
     
  4. cubbyman60

    cubbyman60 Formula Junior

    Apr 24, 2004
    360
    LA
    payne is right. At my high school over 75 percent i believe have never drank or smoked, ill get back to you on that. But if you do it that way, 100% of 40 year olds have participated in illicit activities, so what are you trying to prove?
     
  5. stephens

    stephens F1 Rookie
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    You guys are starting to make me feel abnormal here. My friends from Uni are mostly professional people and almost all, myself included, did a little experimentation at some time!
    The number of drug scandals at both public and well respected private colleges makes my head spin. I think the biggest problem is however alcohol.
     
  6. cubbyman60

    cubbyman60 Formula Junior

    Apr 24, 2004
    360
    LA
    NO, nothing is wrong. Although these things may be illegal, that doesn't mean that people shouldn't try them. However, olderpeople, i believe, are more prone to drunk driving incidents.
     
  7. Auraraptor

    Auraraptor F1 World Champ
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    Yes, yes it is wrong!
     
  8. stephens

    stephens F1 Rookie
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    Unfortunately the statistics do not agree with you. If young drivers had the lwest rate of accidents, drunk or sober, insurance companies as a n example pricetheir premiums by actuarial calculations. Insurance for young drivers is much higher because the risk to the insurance company is correspondingly higher. You make it sound as if this is all a giant conspiracy against young drivers, sadly it is not.
     
  9. Aureus

    Aureus Formula 3

    Then why do teenage males pay more than teenage females despite the greater amount of crashes involving female teenagers? hmm.

    Anyway I'm 18 and I've never used drugs. I've drank quite a few beers, while in Germany, and I don't party. I'm essentially clean and I take objection to the "if you're under 25, 100% of you are doing *blah blah and blah*. Thats bull**** and you, should, know it.
     
  10. stephens

    stephens F1 Rookie
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    The actuaries don't agree with you, yes girls have a rep for getting in minor parking bingles, but unfortunately young men have a significantly statistically greater chance of writing off a car. Don't shoot the messenger, have the maturity to deal with the facts.
     
  11. DGS

    DGS Six Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    May 27, 2003
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    DGS
    He knows when you are sleeping ...
    He knows when you're awake ...
    He knows if you've been bad or good ...
    ... geez, J. Edgar Ashcroft has cameras everywhere. ;)

    ferrarikid308: A GTV-6 is a "keeper" ... IF you can find one that isn't rusted. That may be the best machine Alfa ever made. Pity they used local steel.

    FWIW in statistics: Out of my high school class of 250 or so, one kid managed to total a Checker Marathon (e.g. tank). Police estimate he was doing 120 or so when he hit the 300 year old tree. He was in a coma for a couple of weeks. Another kid might have been dangerous, but he kept blowing up his engine before he could get into too much trouble. (Red line is a limit, dummy.)
     
  12. Aureus

    Aureus Formula 3

    #112 Aureus, Jan 2, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Ages 16/17 women are more reckless drivers and involved in more fatal/injury accidents and still pay less. :shrug:

    I'm not talking about reputations or hersay. Lets start talking about some cold hard facts about your sterotypes. The following two images are print-screens of this report from Idaho The data is pretty much self explanatory. The vertical scale is "Involvement is calculated by dividing the percent of drivers in collisions by the percent of licensed drivers. Over-representation occurs when the value is greater than 1.0."

    The sterotype against young drivers is "justified" to some minor extent, but not really. Young drivers are at a greater risk, obviously, but that is statistics speaking to you. It will always depend on the indavidual and the statistics are not large enough for it to mean that anywhere near all young drivers are suspect. Seeing as there were 44,865 *total* collisions (non injury ones included) in Idaho in 2003, and 925,775 drivers.

    There were 149,445 Drivers age 16-24 in Idaho and they were involved in 12,140 accidents. That would mean, assuming they were all single vechicle crashes where the person driving as at fault, there are 137,305 drivers in that age group who didn't crash. Not crashing is the norm, crashing is the exception. IE, Being a decent responsible driver is the norm. While I wouldn't put myself in a Ferrari as my daily driver, I would see no problem with something like a 944 Turbo or a late 80s 911.

    Ages 16/17 women are more reckless drivers and involved in more fatal/injury accidents and still pay less. :shrug:
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  13. Evolved

    Evolved F1 Veteran

    Nov 5, 2003
    8,700
    Idaho may not represent the national figures. I bet in Idaho, well known for its crowded roads and gridlock(behind tractors) 16-17 year old women DO pay more. Insurance is far to competetive a business to be a vast conspiracy against young men.
     
  14. Aureus

    Aureus Formula 3

    :shrug: California is known for gridlock as well :p. I don't think its some vast conspiracy I just think its "eh screw it, do we really want to change peoples rate each and every year based on their age?" Or something to do with, eh, ask Farmer Dave. He's the insurance guy.
     
  15. stephens

    stephens F1 Rookie
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    Good stats, they only serve to show that 25+ drivers are three times less likely to be involved in a serious accident. How does this show you are right? many places do not even allow 16-18 year olds to have drivers licenses, because they are deemed to be too imature, your stats demonstrate why this is so. Here in Melbourne you must be over 18 to get your license. Far from proving your case, you have just hit the last nail into the coffin on the argument. Thank you.
     
  16. Aureus

    Aureus Formula 3

    Um. Right. It can be said just as easily from those same stats that there is a, get this, learning curve. You know... the longer you drive the more experience you have in general and thus less likelihood of crashing. That learning curve would apply to wherever you started allowing people to drive. If the numbers were large enough, fine. The numbers are too small to justify the BS you are spewing, and that is the point. While young drivers are obviously more likely to get into a crash, the amount of crashes in general is to small to justify your sweeping generalizations.

    I'll put this nice and simple for you again. There were 149,445 drivers age 16-24. Of those less than 12,140 caused a crash. Somewhere less than 8% of drivers 16-24 caused a crash. Whoopdie do. That hardly justifies a statement as broad as "all young drivers are immature and don't know how to drive." Not crashing and driving responsibly is the norm. Thanks, now sod off.

    btw: The stats were simply brought up to show that yes, young teenage girls are more likely to crash and to cause an injury death. Thanks for not admitting that you were wrong. Don't shoot the messenger, have the maturity to deal with the facts.
     
  17. Evolved

    Evolved F1 Veteran

    Nov 5, 2003
    8,700
    Reading what you are out of a sample from a small state where there is very little to hit with a car really does not bolster your arguements.
     
  18. Fred 02

    Fred 02 Karting

    Aug 12, 2004
    86
    My .02

    If the kid can afford the car and the parents can sleep at night knowing that hes driving something that for the most part is out of his driving ability level then go for it. Being 17 I must say that i'm glad i don't have something fast or sporty becasue i know i would have a lapse in judgement and do something stupid with it, but thats just me. There may be kids out there that can handle cars like this, I'm not one of them. My parents got me an Explorer, its boxy, it's slow, and costs around $40 evertime i need to fill up but it certainly gets the job done.
     
  19. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Oct 23, 2002
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    Jim Glickenhaus
    When I was 15 I bought a 54 Stude. I got a 421 Pontiac tri power engine from the bone yard along with a Corvette 3 sp. I got some parts from JC Whitney including a Schieffer clutch. Bolted it together and set off.
    When my little one turned 16 I got her a Toureg with a V6. Told her if she exceeded 50 mph for a year I'd snip two of the plug wires.
     
  20. stephens

    stephens F1 Rookie
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    I am not the on immaturely telling people to sod off. I hope you do not choose any profession that requires any from of data analysis. The stats clearly demonstrate my statement;an 18 year old was three times more likely to be in an accident than a 35 year old. I find your comment about the stats having no meaning because the number of accidents (in the tens of thousands) are too low, rather bemusing.The point of this thread was not a discussion on your argument about young girls being less safe than boys, hence no validation was forthcoming.
    No one made any sweeping generalisations, my comment on driver restrictions came from LEGISLATION in the country that I live. The stats that you provided only reinforced the legitimacy of such legislation. We have already covered the issue that this is the lowest common denominator approach to a problem and other solutions. It appears to me that if you took the time to read more than your own posts and the direct responses and instead read the responses in the context of previous posts and the thread in general you may find yourself less outraged.
    Now I could tell you to sod off, but instead I will respectfully ask you to show a little more maturity.
     
  21. cubbyman60

    cubbyman60 Formula Junior

    Apr 24, 2004
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    No one made any sweeping generalisations,

    Yes, sweeping generalizations were made, that's why the debate started. I believe it was kvm who was calling all teenagers irrisponsible. That was one of the most aggrivating, all encompassing, and practically degrading claims I've ever heard.
     
  22. ashsimmonds

    ashsimmonds F1 World Champ

    Feb 14, 2004
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    so, did the kid get a dam car or wot?

    if he's really willing to compromise as much as you say, get him a clubman/caterham/lotus 7 kinda thing. really not much else on the road that's got the bang-fer-buck.

    otherwise, let him get an older car he already likes the look of and spend $10-20k on engine/suspension development and customization.

    if i'm reading it right, it's effectively saying that nearly 5% of 17-18 year olds are involved in fatal collisions.

    that's almost 1-in-20 odds that in a given year, your teenage kid will kill him/herself in a car. people play lotto (stupidity tax) thinking they'll come away with a profit at million-to-one odds.

    when it comes down to it, the average car is just a 1.5 tonne mass of metal, glass, boiling fluids and explosive gases, held on potholey oil-soaked roads by a couple inches of rubber, filled with human meat.
     
  23. kfm

    kfm Karting

    Jul 19, 2004
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    Kevin
    I did not call them all irresponsible. I called them all inexperienced, and my point was that inexperience can be a dangerous thing behind the wheel of a sports car. I dont see how you can argue with me that calling a 17 year old inexperienced is "aggrivating, all encompassing, and practically degrading." It may annoy you to hear it said, but I cant help that. I will readily admit that there are some mature teenagers.
     
  24. stephens

    stephens F1 Rookie
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    I can see how a teenager who sees themselves as being responsible, could be annoyed by some of the points being brought up in this thread, that said, it needs to be realised that the comments posted are in no way designed to be an attack on anyone personally and are all, at best, generalisations.
    having said that, if you are a teenager reading this thread and believe that some of the opinions do not apply to you, then don't take offence, because they probably don't apply to you after all.
     
  25. iceburns288

    iceburns288 Formula 3

    Jun 19, 2004
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    Charles M.
    I play lots of racing sims to prepare me for driving, I'm experienced! ;)

    At least La Sarthe is on the road. I just need MM3 to come out on PC so I can practice on that. I used to do that with MM2, I would drive it like normal traffic to get used to it. Quite fun, actually.
     

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