Sportmanship?

Had the FIA been able to show proof of illegal TC they would have punished the team for it and said so. They did just that with Honda and their fuel ballast tricks. The black flag penalty was for the black flag infraction.

 

I guess you missed this part of my post:

Where in the above-referenced statement do you see me saying that it is OK that Senna cheated?

 

The software was discovered by the FIA during an inspection of the Benetton. It existed, it was on the Benetton, and it was accessible by the driver. This is a fact.

 

I said he ran the traction control, not invented it...

 

Was it exclusive to him? Jos the Boss didn't get to try it?

 

The team's explanation at the time was that it was leftover code from 1993 and that it was never activated. The FIA accepted the explanation and took no further action against the team. Those are the facts. We can guess all we want and give out opinions but lets not pass them off as facts.

 

The implication that since Senna was real sorry and because it was for revenge, it was somehow LESS a crime than when MS does it.

 

The difference is that Senna only did it once. I think the issue people have with Schumacher is his repeat offender status.

 

Again, longevity helps with these records. Schumacher achieved pole 68 times in 250 races, a success rate of 27%. Senna achieved pole 65 times in 162 races, which means he was on pole for 40% of his races. So, who's the better driver?

 

This debate could go on forever but in all seriousness, exactly who here believes that Senna was so righteous that this was the ONLY time he EVER bent the rules in his favor during his ENTIRE career either out in the open or behind the scenes? Really.

I'm not drinking that cool aid.

 

Sure Senna wasn't perfect, no one is, but I can't think of a driver other than Schumacher who has been involved in so many ugly incidents in F1. The part I don't get is how some people accept his consistently unsportsmanlike behaviour just because he's won so many races or because 'that's racing'. Must be the Kool Aid.

 

Every team had the software, consistent with the regulations, and if you think only MS was able to access it you're dumber than you look.

Where's the proof Schumacher used it during races?

 

Mark,

Please stop with the personal insults, no fun really .

Senna3xWC is 100% right in this case and the FIA took action against Benetton, so you are debating with the FIA about an action they took many years ago.

Benetton had illegal software as far as the FIA was concerned. Now all teams may have had software that the driver illegally could access, but only Benetton and MS were caught.

Best
Pete

 

You're right, it has been many years and I may have forgotten. What action did the FIA take against Benetton? I don't recall them doing anything that year other than the ban for the black flag incident at Silverstone.

 

There you go again, knocking his abilities...

 

Didn't MS have to sit out 3 races or something?

Pete

 

He was disqualified from the British GP. His team advised him to stay out after he got a black flag so they could argue about the call. Pretty stupid really. Then, when the team appealed the decision after the race, they got a 2 race ban on top of the DQ. He also lost his win at Belgium that year after his skid plank under the car was found to be too thin. Steve Matchett (race commentator and former Benetton mechanic for those not in the USA) was livid about that call. He insists, having seen it with his own eyes, the excessive wear was not from too low a ride height, but rather a simple groove caused by a spin Michael had over the curbs. I never saw any photos of the plank so I'll take his word for it since he was there.

 

Gee, hmmm, I thought the FIA did something directly relating to the 'launch control'. Now I am not sure at all.

I remember it being discussed. I do recall the skid plank and IMO (via TV only) he was hard done by, obviously caused by the spin.

Pete

 

I remember the spin, skid plank was damaged by the curbing. Pure brain fart by MS.

 

MS-he won more championships!!!!

Seriously, don't forget the numerous rules changes re qualifying during the course of MS's career to improve the show.

Why does every thread degenerate into a MS/AS bashing symposium?

Let's see, MS has retired and AS has been dead for almost 13 years.....

However, since we are bashing MS and AS, let me throw some fuel on the fire:

1)Neither was as smart as Lauda; and

2)Neither MS or AS were as good as Jim Clark...

 

I was wrong. No penalty was applied for traction control:

Pete

 

Fchatters jumped all over me for using Wikipedia.

Is it OK to use now?

 

Juan Manuel Fangio, he had pole in over 50% of his races and won about 45%. And how come Schumacher has more wins than Senna then, remember you don't get any points for poles and you get 10 for wins.

 

Whats your problem with the insults? First off McLaren had something like it, and Benetton definately had it. They didn't prove it was used, because at the time, that season had enough problems. The fact that Tom Walkinshaw was part of the Benetton team and had the Fuel Filters removed is a prime example. As I said before, the best punishment the FIA gave Benetton was the 2 Race Penalty for Schumacher over the Black Flag incident. Had the software not been on that car, he would have been disqualified from the British GP of 94, not that mattered as he had already had car problems.

In addition, the 94 Benetton Schumacher drove was a helluva lot different than the ones his teammates drove, per the other drivers who witnessed the car in action.

Why the name calling? You don't like the posts, why the insults?

 

You might be right about that Jim Clark. I think he was the best.