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Speciale --> Pista --> Speciale

Discussion in '458 Italia/488/F8' started by Eilig, May 10, 2020.

  1. Gh21631

    Gh21631 F1 Rookie
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    The speed thing is all relative, today I took my GT3 out and by comparison to the F12, Pista and McLarens it is super slow - like everything happens in slow motion. If this is all I knew then perhaps it would feel faster than it is. With this said I still enjoy rowing the gears in this car, it is a lot of fun to drive.
     
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  2. Lukeylikey

    Lukeylikey Formula 3
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    Speciale is amazing. I drove it this week for the first time since I took it to the Mille Miglia exactly one year ago. It is, and always will be, a wonderful car from a golden generation, But as with anything, things move on. Our 812 was delivered early this year. The transmission on the V12 makes the Speciale feel slow - I could never have believed that. The downshifts, mated to that V12, are wonderful. The 812 drives outrageously well. And the Pista? Ours is delivered tomorrow morning after a two year wait. It’s a TM car in yellow. I won’t expect it to sound like the 812 or even the Speciale. I won’t expect it to drive like them either. I’ve come to love the way the turbo generation goes - loved my now-departed 488 spider too. It’s all good but to me, the 812 unpicks the sound argument to keep a 458 over newer cars. The real 458 argument is about the blend of looks, handling and price. It’s not better to drive than a Speciale or a 488 nor an 812 either, though that car is not directly comparable. You Choose a 458 because of the blend of all those things, but there are better cars out there for each element. YMMV
     
  3. Gh21631

    Gh21631 F1 Rookie
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    You will love the Pista and the sound isn't too had after break in. Good luck with the delivery.
     
  4. IloveGT

    IloveGT Formula Junior

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    eloquently said!
     
  5. Lukeylikey

    Lukeylikey Formula 3
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    Thanks - pretty excited. Hope I like it!
     
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  6. Gh21631

    Gh21631 F1 Rookie
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    You will more than like it, the car is beautiful and a blast to drive.
     
  7. Solid State

    Solid State F1 Veteran
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    All exhausts gets better after some use. That said it wont be long before you'll wish a new car made any sound other than what you hear from a Tesla. At some point starting up an F12/812 will just shock or scare people nearby. Cant wait. :)
     
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  8. dustman

    dustman F1 Veteran
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    You should see what happens when the Performante fires up....insanity.
     
  9. Solid State

    Solid State F1 Veteran
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    Not bad - for only 10 cylinders! :)
     
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  10. Lukeylikey

    Lukeylikey Formula 3
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    Had a good day today - our new Pista literally looks stunning, we have the spider. Love the TM choices we made. It’s a bit early to tell because I haven’t pushed beyond 6 or 7/10ths yet but I remember the journalist who said it is like a better 488. This seems like it might be correct. The Speciale felt like quite a different car to the 458. The Pista feels like a car in the same vein just sharper. It would be unfair to reach that conclusion just yet though. Put it this way, my first day in the 812 left me shocked how good it was compared to my expectation. The Pista didn’t do that. It felt like I imagined It would from my experience of 10k miles in a 488 - a 488 that is 25% better everywhere. As I said, I need to reserve judgement until I can go for it a bit harder.
     

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  11. Solid State

    Solid State F1 Veteran
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    Very nice and happy for you! Most folks don't realize the difference lower gearing makes especially when the drive line is tuned to it. Better to compare the 812 to the F12TdF which has the same gearing than the Berlinetta. In motorcycle racing you actually de-tune the engine a lot of times and toss the rear sprocket for a larger one and get the trans in order. The completed package feels like a different vehicle even though its the same one. That said its the operator that makes all the real difference.
     
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  12. Jo Sta7

    Jo Sta7 F1 Rookie
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    Looks beautiful! Happy for you.
     
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  13. BG23

    BG23 Formula Junior

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    Congratulations - spec is fantastic, well done!

    I've had my pista spider since August and I can tell you - wait until you can push it. Possibly my favorite change is the removal of the soft limiter - the 488 started to cut ignition at 7,000rpm and then it gently eased into the true 7,500rpm redline. The pista goes hard all the way to 8,000 rpm.
     
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  14. Scudmsl

    Scudmsl Karting
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    I have a Scud and a Pista now (and recently sold my 488 Spider) so I have had the pleasure of comparing them on and off track. The Pista is everything that people have said and is the most competent (and IMO beautiful) car I have owned. But the Scud was my first F-car and holds a special place for me. I love its rawness, both in terms of the driving experience and the sound...but I could drive the Pista for hours. The Scud wears me out after too long behind the wheel. But up until that point, it is an absolute blast to drive even if it is not as quick and torquey as the Pista or 488. I also appreciate the Scud’s beauty and design. I am obviously biased, but I think the Scud deserves much more love than it gets being sandwiched between the CS and the Speciale.
     
  15. AlfistaPortoghese

    AlfistaPortoghese Moderator
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    Insanely good looking 488! I’m in love with it.

    Kind regards,

    Nuno.
     
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  16. Lukeylikey

    Lukeylikey Formula 3
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    Thanks for the kind comments. Here’s a few more pics, still iPhone. I have taken some on a good camera but not processed them yet. I’m getting into the car a bit more. About 150 miles on it now so still driving with mechanical sympathy but I have taken it at high speed along some favourites country lanes that help me to judge where I think it’s at. It feels less mobile at the rear end compared with the Speciale and has much more grip. There is so much torque, even at mild throttle openings, that when I eventually go to the max (my max rather than its, no doubt) there will be plenty of ‘mobility’ but it’s natural state is to try and grip hard, whereas the Speciale is always playful. The front end on the Pista is really really nice. You can get it dialled in really well and I have a feeling that this is a car that will allow you to find significant extra reserves when you think you might have overdone it a bit.

    I think I will find others’ comments to be correct - the car will come alive when you’re pressing on and show the five years’ development over the Speciale. What’s great for me is that the Pista doesn’t make the Speciale pointless - they are quite different. Of course, n/a v turbo but also their character is a bit different. Being able to have the Pista in spider form is great too - our Speciale is a coupe. Seems like the best of all worlds! The Pista spider does seem to flex a smidge more than the 488 spider over very uneven surfaces but that is down to the extra pace and stiffer suspension of the Pista I guess. Nothing to worry about and not noticeable with the hood up our over normal and smooth roads. Hearing the soundtrack better is more than adequate compensation - it’s not sweet like the 812 but it’s noisy and purposeful and most importantly of all, encourages you to drive!
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  17. Coincid

    Coincid Formula 3

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    Car is stunning.Enjoy.
     
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  18. uhn2000

    uhn2000 Formula 3
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    Nice writeup, thank you for sharing. @Lukeylikey glad to hear they are not very redundant especially since I plan on owning both for quite some time. Have a good one all.
     
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  19. plastique999

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    Loose is fun!
    Sound can be modified to perfection


    Sent from my 16M
     
  20. Gh21631

    Gh21631 F1 Rookie
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    Yellow is not for me but damn that looks incredible. Very nice spec. The Pista coupes and spiders just look amazing.
     
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  21. plastique999

    plastique999 F1 Veteran
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    I don’t recall anyone saying the Scud was better than the Speciale when it came out.... the Speciale was a hit from day 1 as manifest by its 5+ years staying over MSRP.


    Sent from my 16M
     
  22. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota Formula 3
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    The reason is simple. As was stated, it is the only one of the V8 VS cars that actually comes close to being track focused. It does not feel overly darty and artificial in its turn-in, but it feels light and positive. Combine this with no added understeer and you get a car which reacts very fast and aren't very forgiving. It is the only VS that feels sort of race car like. A Pista or Speciale is fun and they are great, but they do understeer and push. And as with the overly sensitive throttle and jerky shifts of a 458 Italia, Ferrari added some "race car feel" for the regular Joe by adding some speed to the turn-in. But at the same time, they kept the car safe by adding understeer. I personally like the Scud because it retains a bit of the agility of the CS. It is not quite as neutral and willing to rotate, but it still has a very positive turn-in with a satisfying degree of oversteer. Could more be added? Sure, but it's not bad for a street car.

    It's interesting how we perceive these cars. Some adore the Speciale, and others prefer something entirely different. I suspect that part of what makes the Speciale so attractive is the fact that it ticks a lot of boxes for people who are passionate about Ferrari and cars, but not necessarily track rats or racers. It is refined enough that you can cruise it around and safe enough that you can comfortably go for a spirited drive without fear of climbing trees. It has the loudness and grabs attention for those whom seek that sort of thing. It is in many ways the idea of what a fun car should be - because it is not stressful to drive and easy to enjoy.

    But on the flipside of this, is a tendency to really perform when called upon. I think that the Pista is much more satisfying and rewarding to drive fast on track. In stock form it still has some of the drawbacks as the Speciale when it comes to darty steering and understeer as the Speciale, but it has a much less intrusive ESC system and power on tap which more easily lets you push past those things. Of course there's still something to be gained by upgrading brakes and setting up the chassis properly for track work, but as a complete package for both street and track, I think the Pista is the car to have compared to the Speciale.
    For me the penultimate VS V8 is the 16M. It's just an all around fun and slightly silly car. If that doesn't make you smile, you're dead inside. Yes it flexes, but it is still tail happy enough to be a hoot, it's loud enough to wake the dead when fitted with AP headers, and unlike the regular F430, the ESC does not spoil the fun. Had a talk with my dealer rep about a month ago where we debated the holy trinity of VS cars. As he said, many seemed to feel that it was 458SA, 458S and Scud. But when it came to their large segment of corse cliente, things were different. Just about all of them had turned in their 458 Speciales and some their SA, and expressed little desire to go back. As we talked, it was clear that the CS and Scud seemed to be in much higher regard with that crowd and many seemed to feel that the Pista represented the VS better than the Speciale did. This is not to say that the Speciale is not a great car worthy of the VS moniker, because it is. But whether it is better or not than a Pista depends on what your prerogatives are. On Tuesday last week when having a fun day going back and forth between the Pista and a GT4 with a pretty good track setup, it really became apparent to me what the Pista is capable of. When we debate the idea that speed and power is not everything, few cars makes this more true than the Cayman GT4. This has about 26k km on it, and at least 16k of those are on track. On the track in Sweden that day, going back and forth between the cars back to back over the course of a three hour track session with almost no rest and only about 15-cars at the track, it became really apparent what the Pista is and is capable of. It lifts the heritage of the 348 CH and 360 CS in a way both the Scud and Speciale can't. As was said earlier, it is more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow. Enter the Pisfa and this no longer holds true. It is fun on a super twisty track chasing a Frankenstein car of a modeed MX-5 or a super nimble GT4 in a way I haven't experienced in a long time, and that's a tall order for a 720 hp monster on a track where speeds rarely go above 170km/h in that car. Now when the understeer is taken care of as soon as Scuderia Parts have the camber shims, it will be one hell of a fun car anywhere at any time. I understand why those Challenge, FXX, GT3/GTE guys love the Pista so much, because it is a car which can make you smile at any speed and like the early predecessor the CS, it fully rewards you when you make an effort.

    To many the loud Speciale will hold a special place as a unique car which is the pinnacle of what Ferrari was capable of at the end of an era. An era which was both defind by Luca as well as its technology. To others, the Pista will sit in its place representing a time when Ferrari brought back some of the supercar madness and rawness which was a key element in what made the original VS cars so special.

    Should I wish for anything, it would be that Ferrari once again offered a "Fiorano setup" for the VS cars like they used to. This is the only place where I really feel they let us down. They offer the Assetto pack forvthe SF90, but why on earth not offer a simple option which simply consists of a more track focused alignment like they would put on the car which set the Fiorano lap time.

    The debate on which car is best is as pointless as a debate over blondes over brunettes over redheads. One might appeal more to you for one reason or other, but make sure you enjoy them all and take them for as many rides as you can. Because each have something special to offer and one day it's all over. For me, the Pista now holds the crown and to me the CS and 16M are the ones which compares and still properly excites me. The Speciale is to me, what the 458 should have been, and never really tickled me the right way as a VS car. Will I ever turn down a go in one now that I adore the Pista so much or scuff at it? Never, not in a million years. We can debate all of this in terms of personal preference, but it would be pure nonsense to start talking about one vs. another as a "bad car", because despite our different preferences, both the Speciale and Pista are truly unique and desirable cars.

    Sent from my SM-G930F using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
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  23. Shack

    Shack Formula 3
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    Thats my understanding
     
  24. Eilig

    Eilig F1 Rookie
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    Currently on Autotrader:

    458 Speciale: 18 cars for sale, quantity still trending down
    488 Pista: 55 cars for sale, quantity still trending up

    Two weeks ago, counts were:

    458 Speciale: 23 and trending down
    488 Pista: 53 and trending up
     
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  25. Lukeylikey

    Lukeylikey Formula 3
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    Thought I’d post another pic for fun. These three are probably long-term garage-mates so time for a quick photo shoot now the Pista has arrived. The Speciale is an atelier car, the other two TM. All three triple layer colours which are expensive but worth it in my view, so long as you want to keep the car for a while or the car itself is special enough to deserve it.
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