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Some interesting cars coming up at RM Sotheby's "Duemila Ruote" auction in Milan

Discussion in 'Vintage Ferrari Market' started by Abi2612, Sep 28, 2016.

  1. sdematt

    sdematt Karting

    Nov 16, 2015
    216
    Vancouver, Canada
    Full Name:
    Matt
    Okay thanks!
     
  2. ryanbushell

    ryanbushell Formula Junior

    Mar 25, 2012
    703
    England
    Full Name:
    Ryan Bushell
    Currently at the auction.

    Lots of poor and average cars.

    Most lots selling high.
     
  3. riccardone

    riccardone Karting

    May 24, 2015
    135
    #78 riccardone, Nov 25, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2016
    Following online. The estimates on some of these were ridiculously low, but the action looks crazy so far. A run of the mill 3.2 911 that hasnt been started in two years selling for 75k Eur!?! The 67 2.2 with a wrong body going for 65k! You're basically buying the engine and the vin tag.
     
  4. Kristian

    Kristian Formula Junior

    Nov 28, 2008
    381
    Seattle area
    Yeah, the cars seem to be selling for over value (comparable). The E30 M3 track project went for 30k Euros...
     
  5. sdematt

    sdematt Karting

    Nov 16, 2015
    216
    Vancouver, Canada
    Full Name:
    Matt
    Maybe just all the hype and the timing?
     
  6. craterface

    craterface Formula Junior

    Apr 14, 2011
    615
    Sanibel Island, FL
    Alfa GTA Sprint for 336k euro

    Alfa 1900C five window coupe for 358k euro, and the the car looked very tatty.

    A car u would love to own, but at half the price.

    Strong dollar against the euro?
    Would be interesting to know if Americans are doing the buying? Seems unlikely they are buying the modern Porsches.

    The demise of the collector car market has been greatly exaggerated.
     
  7. nis1973

    nis1973 Formula Junior

    Jan 19, 2013
    397
    NYC/CT
    Yeah, I'm at the auction and it's a zoo. A couple of observations:
    1. A TON(!) of people showed up expecting the deal of a century and as a result there will be no deals.
    2. Most of the cars are mediocre or worse. The six cars I had inspected yesterday all ended up having issues that either disqualified them for me or meant that prices would have to be much lower than what I had assumed looking at the photos on the site and the additional stuff RM emailed to me.
    3. Selling that many cars in such a short time with no reserve may end up resulting in higher prices. You have all these people who've come from all over Europe and North America and many seem anxious to buy something to justify the trip. More importantly, given the number of cars, the very limited time to inspect and RM staff's understadable inability to accomodate special requests (when I was interested in a car at the 2015 Villa d'Este aucton, they arranged for my mechanic to inspect it several days before the auction, put it on a lift, etc.) I think a lot of bidders a bidding with the most cursory of inspections. One of the race cars that I was interested in is a fake according to the guys I had inspected it. They were works mechanics who built these cars in period so I have no reason to doubt them. It did sell at a pretty hefty price so whoever bought it must have just believed the pretty pictures. I don't believe this would have happened in a regular auction...
     
  8. ryanbushell

    ryanbushell Formula Junior

    Mar 25, 2012
    703
    England
    Full Name:
    Ryan Bushell
    Just a few hammer prices for those unable to attend or didn't catch the auction online:

    Lot 217 - Mercedes 300 E Sedan AMG - 75,000
    Lot 219 - Maserati Ghibli 4.9 SS - (Basket case) - 105,000
    Lot 238 - Alfa Romeo Giulietta Spider - (Basket case) - 42,000
    Lot 244 - Maserati Indy - 102,000
    Lot 250 - Lancia Fulvia Coupe Rallye 1.3 HF - 30,000
    Lot 259 - Fiat Dino Coupe - 50,000
    Lot 263 - Ferrari 250 GTE 2+2 (no engine, resto project) - 145,000
    Lot 270 - Alfa Romeo Duetto 1600 Spider - 46,000
    Lot 284 - DeTomaso Pantera GTS - 110,000
     
  9. nis1973

    nis1973 Formula Junior

    Jan 19, 2013
    397
    NYC/CT
    Apparently 88% of those who registered had never registered for an auction before (according to RM). The allure of "going of business sale!" has kept happily in business many second and third tier jewelers and rug places in NYC for years. Somehow it always works. It will be interesting to see what happens when the big cars come up for sale.
     
  10. richardson michael

    Aug 17, 2013
    239
    brittany. france
    Full Name:
    michael richardson
    Ryan. I am collecting prices via a twitter link. That Merc 300 AMG I saw at 84K. Either way,that figure,plus some of the others seem crazy.Many cars making 100K over top estimate.
     
  11. Dalin

    Dalin Rookie

    Jun 3, 2013
    41


    On Twitter they give prices including the auction fee (12%, plus VAT on those 12%).
    Crazy auction indeed.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  12. BO67

    BO67 Karting

    Oct 11, 2016
    82
    Faraway soclose here
    Full Name:
    Its me
    The Prices are enormous !
    Alfa 1900C 358.000.-€ ???????
    woow i should have given them my cars !:)
     
  13. Andrea S

    Andrea S Rookie

    Jun 24, 2010
    34
    Milan, Italy
    Maserati MC12 2.7mln € hammer
    Ferrari 275 gtb 6c 3.05mln € hammer
     
  14. amenasce

    amenasce Two Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 17, 2001
    27,152
    Paris / Chicago
    Full Name:
    Andrew Menasce
    Cant mc12 be had easily for 1.5m euros?
     
  15. wbaeumer

    wbaeumer F1 Veteran
    Consultant

    Mar 4, 2005
    7,742
    6 months ago it was a €2.0m-car!

    Ciao!
    Walter
     
  16. nis1973

    nis1973 Formula Junior

    Jan 19, 2013
    397
    NYC/CT
    I also thought that this one was high but today I was told that it apparently had period Mille Miglia history and so the price probably makes sense...
     
  17. amenasce

    amenasce Two Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 17, 2001
    27,152
    Paris / Chicago
    Full Name:
    Andrew Menasce
    European sales?
     
  18. wbaeumer

    wbaeumer F1 Veteran
    Consultant

    Mar 4, 2005
    7,742
    Yes
     
  19. Caeruleus11

    Caeruleus11 F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jun 11, 2013
    9,199
    Thanks nis1973. I've always taken a cautionary view of auctions.
     
  20. pez

    pez Rookie

    Jan 10, 2005
    21
    Rm getting Rich from 3days of insanity. The autoclassica is going on in the next hall where you can buy much nicer examples of what is being auctioned for half the price.

    Nothing to be had here at RMItaly
     
  21. BIRA

    BIRA Formula Junior

    Jun 15, 2007
    888
    This is a correct analysis, the Osenat garbage/junkyard auction in South of France 2 weeks ago produced the same result. First time buyers / auction participants plus people who want to buy something are a recipe for over enthusiasm. Remember also the sale of Elton John cars. Every time they come to resale, they fetch a lower and lower price,,,there is only one Steve MC Queen because he was cool AND a real car enthusiast.
    The good news is that real auction crowds are much more reasonable when they buy - specially cars with no papers that might be very difficult to collect and almost impossible to export, hello wake up with Italian bureaucracy- and more realistic when they sell and they don't like to sell at no reserve to avoid bad surprises. So this will not move the market, as much as selling the silverware of the Normandy or the bedroom table of the Royal Monceau hotel did not create a real bubble, just few surprises after the booze is digested!
     
  22. amenasce

    amenasce Two Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 17, 2001
    27,152
    Paris / Chicago
    Full Name:
    Andrew Menasce
    It is surprising. Let's take the MC12 for example. Someone who can spend 3m euros on a whim clearly has a ton of FU money. Clearly not a broker. But then why did he buy an MC12 already when they are not that hard to come by? Is it just a case of a lot of people with a LOT of money and 0 knowledge of the market or could it be some...money laundering action going there?
     
  23. Distefap

    Distefap Rookie

    Feb 28, 2013
    11
    Certainly not the right place for money laundering, as details of buyers will be available to the Italian tax authorities, given the bankruptcy procedure behind this auction. Most common and known "collectors" items that would turn up at auctions weren't too far off prices seen elsewhere (with some notable exception) and real collectors did bid and win lots, such as the 275. Mediocre cars involving relatively smallere amounts of money went fpr crazy prices, especially given the amount of works / restoration needed to get them to start... if it is true that a lot of newly registered bidders showed up, then thos must be a consequence of lack of experience.
     
  24. solofast

    solofast Formula 3

    Oct 8, 2007
    1,772
    Indianapolis
    A lot of the prices of the "estimated range" for items that I know something about (old racing boats) were crazy low compared to what I would have expected them to go for. I think this brought out a lot of inexperienced buyers thinking they would get a steal and of course that most likely didn't happen.

    I was a bit disillusioned in that there were a lot of items that were in various states of disassembly and some of those were sold as separate lots. That is, if you wanted to put together a couple of the Alfa powered racing boats, you had to buy the engines separately and that may have been a disproportnately expensive task. I also saw a 250 GTE engine that it looked like was being sold separately from the chassis/body which is a horrible thing to do..
     
  25. richardson michael

    Aug 17, 2013
    239
    brittany. france
    Full Name:
    michael richardson
    Agreed,the lower value cars,bought by new people to the market,after restoration work required,will never see their investment back. I doubt that any prices achieved here will alter/change,or affect the classic car marketplace next week,or next year . The top end cars made pretty much what you would expect,(Fcars),...So,fascinating weekend,lots of Italians doing their dosh on Alfas/Lancias/etc,etc, but in a bubble, Let us see what happens in 2017.
     

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