Slow Window Fix for less than $30.00

Added the relays and the passenger window works great, even goes all the way up now.

 

Hi, I haven’t been on for a while, I’ve been reading up on all the window threads! It’s nice to see people enjoying fixing their windows themselves and to see the little extra ideas and touches people have made to it. If you are doing DIY then thicker and shorter is better. Another added benefit is to solder the connections on. Shorten the factory wiring if you dare and ditch any inline connectors for soldered ones. The 40A relays have beefy guts and will pass more current. I use these in my booster modules -http://www.chryng.com/en/product_show.asp?id=74 this shows the 24v relay but I use the 12v ones. They are totally sealed and pumped with compound. Also remember to clean off any paint behind the earth point bolt and apply grease after to stop any corrosion. Have fun and if anyone want to see my site where I started all this it’s here www.ferrariwindow.com or if you don’t fancy building your own. Frazer

 

Well I spent all day working on my passenger side windows. I tried the dual relay set up and it blew the fuse twice . I wired it up as shown but it didn't work. I also then pulled the motor and cleaned up the gear drive and reinstalled it. it does work better but the relay system didn't work for my 1977. I checked and double checked and had the wiring correct but no good. By the way my drivers side runs great without any accelerators. I'll need to look at the set up again tomorrow because I need to check the lock on the door. The button is not working so I must have moved something while putting the door panel back on.

 

Hi Steve, there is a very good chance that you have a negative switched system. With all the people that I have supplied my window boosters to, I have had 4 cars that have had negative switching. This means that that both wires going to your motor are permanently live with the ignition on. When you press the window switch one of the wires goes NEG. if this is the case then this system won’t work on your car. Expose the 2 motor wires and switch the ignition on. Test with a bulb or volt meter from the earth on the door to either wire with no window switches pressed. If there is voltage then you have NEG switched system. If this is the case PM me and I will tell you how to rewire all the relays you have to make it work really well. Frazer

 

If +12v is applied to the window motors at rest, it siimply means the supply wires to the window switches are reversed. While not easy to recognize it is super simple to fix. (reverse them back) Frazer's test of the motor wire resting condition should be a first step in a window fix.

 

I'll check it out later today. After cleaning and lub'ing the system it works fairly well so as long as they go up and down OK then I'll see if what you describe is happening. Thanks

 

Thanks for this solution. My passenger window was slow especially at the top. I rewired the door jamb with only a minor improvement - arrggg!
This relay solution worked very well and it doesn't involve any wiring outside the door. No more embarrassing slow windows!

Larry

 

It appears this module will do the job!! Fairly simple to install. Just ordered some... we'll see how it goes. Only 1 per side.
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As we are resurrecting this old thread, I just post my own cheap modification for 400i electric power windows. Should be applicable to all the Fiat switches of that era.

Unlike the other solution in this thread that makes a better ground, the idea here is to insert a booster module between the window switch and the harness. I am not modifying or cutting the stock harness.

Here is my right window switch. Black and blue wires are the power supply, yellow cables do go to the motors. On the left side this is the same idea except that power supply is Black and White, motors cables are grey.

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For these boosters I am using to small automotive relay that I glue together and "shrink wrap". This allows for a thin footprint that is easy to shoe-horn in the console. I am using 2mm bullet connector in order to easily "tap" the harness. These are my 2 boosters with specific cabling colours for left and right windows.

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Here are the (crude) connections. The two relays are glued "head to tail". The green cables are going to the switch:

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NB : It is based on @samsaprunoff elegant solution (https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/how-to-repair-a-window-motor-in-a-400-series-car.593917/#post-146443489)

 

Sorry I've mixed colours and cannot edit original post: on the left side, green cables are going to the motor, and I am using grey cables for the window reversing switch.

 

It looks like a disaster is about to happen on the last image Why you didn't use a relay socket?

 

If you look at the setup you may notice that I have a proper crimp tool (see the bullet connectors). Relay sockets are too big and the "socketed booster" cannot be inserted between the console and the transmission tunnel. Even OMRON relays are too thick.

These are still protected by the fuse, which I've downsized to 7A. Even if the relay blows up, no way it will fry the 2mm2 (stock) harness. These were installed two years ago, relay did not fail so far. 40A full size relays are overkill.

 

A picture is worth thousands words. The green area is were I am "shoe-horning" my booster (highlighted in orange). No room for excess bulk.

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I can understand however that some of you may prefer a less crude approach than direct soldering. The connection diagram can be easily implemented with sockets and in any case it does work quite well:

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As I've said my fuses are only 7Amps (I've stripped and clean the motors which may help), so one could even try some micro relays. This being said this is a <$30 thread. 4 mini automotive relays without socket are probably the way to go for such low budget.

If the booster fails (or if the next owner does not like my soldering skills), it is just a matter of removing the ashtray, disconnect the booster and revert back to the stock setup. No tools required, 5 minutes job. I wish the previous owners had had this non intrusive approach when they changed the mirrors, installed alarm, modern audio, central locking, flashing repeaters and master switch. All their mess took so long to remove...

 

It appears that you've got your heart set on it (nothing wrong with that) but a single reversing module for $9 would have saved you lot's of work and it would have looked so much cleaner IMO. The purpose is to protect the switch from overload since Ferrari is using no relays on that circuit and apply direct voltage to the motor.

 

Got to agree that at $9 these are better value for money !

 

But ... you'll always be able to find simple relays not sure about that special box. I don't think I'd dip them. Maybe just seal them in a plastic bag so they can be replaced easily.

 

In case anyone is curious (I was) I built a test version of the OPs idea using two old relays I had laying about to test it on the slow driver's side window of my Testarossa. This solution worked very well. Now I am going to buy four new relays and build a proper pair for my car. Many thanks for this.

 

FWIW:
I did the grounding relay approach only to the UP direction - driver's side 'cuz I just couldn't stand how slow it was. I cleaned up the switches and that made a noticeable improvement, but the relay tying the ground as solidly as possible made the biggest difference. Was easy to make a clean addition without modifying any original harness or connectors.

How we love them so!

 

Looking at the specification sheet of the "black box" it does seem to be operated by a toggle, whereas my car has reversing switches. The blackbox does expect one of its FWD/REV input to be grounded, not sure it would tolerate a live feed on the other input.

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Maybe that one could make it do by disconnecting the cables that I have highlighted in RED in the above diagram (these +12v are actually white and blue in my car). If modifying the harness is an issue, two pairs of diodes could probably do the trick (?).

@TommyA : please let us know how you implement this in the end as at first sight this does not seem as "plug and play" as the OP's elegant approach.

 

Raemin they are on BO in the US so I ordered from China. They should be in next week. I will give them a go and report.

 

Raemin I think you're overthinking this... its a very basic circuit at least on the 308. 1 and 5 go to the motor. 3 is the + and 2 - 4 grounds. As simple as that.
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I see you use Paul Bennet's diagram. I believe you should read the "improvement by adding relay" document that he is also offering together with the diagram that you are using. (I am not posting it as it is copyrighted).

It's clear from your abstract that you do have a reversing switch (not a toggle switch). Your installation cannot be as simple as connect wire 1 from the switch to FWD input of the blackbox and wire 5 to the REV input. As soon as you press the switch to the up position the FWD input will be grounded (which is correct), but the REV input will receive +12v (which is not correct).

If you want to play it safe I still consider that you should add diodes to both inputs. This 308 window harness is secured through 25A fuses, applying 12v/25A to what is supposed to be grounded is a bad idea.

At the very least you should disconnect wire 3 from the toggle switch.

Last but not least there is a difference between Fispa and Ducellier switches, the later could be used as toggle switches compatible with your modules, not sure about the earlier types (the pins are grounded while the switch rests in the middle position).

Ferrari electric gremlins never are...

 

3 Will be disconnected from the switch and will supply the power to the relay.

 

Raemin I still believe that it will be very simple. Looking at the wiring diagram of the switch and module, 3 will be the power to the module, 1 and 5 to the motor and 2-4 the ground. It appears that the 3 wires from the top of the module (blue, green and black) get connected to the switch. The module is supplying power to the motor and the switch to control the internal relay. At least this is what their wiring diagram is documenting. I hope it makes sense.... it does to me at least. I can't wait to try it out

 

I just want to be clear... 1 and 5 will disconnected from the switch and get connected to the module motor output. Only Green, Black and blue will stay connected to the switch.