I'm in the process of the valve adjustment and I can't find my caliper. Murphy's law!!!! Is the shim shown below 3.70 mm? I need to find the caliper, as other shims are not readable, they must have placed the numbers towards the cam. The gap at the exhaust of the one shows below was at 0.31 mm before taking the cam off. Should I replace this shim for a 3.65 mm one? Or should I ignore the writing all together and get a micrometer? I would like to avoid having to re-adjust the shims with the cams on. It was quite difficult removing the shim with the cam off. Is there any secret on how to remove them? Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Yes, that one style of marking for a 3.70 mm thick shim. However, I'd still get a micrometer (NOT a caliper) to verify it. It's common to lap a few tenths of a mm off of a shim with a piece of 600 - 800 grit wet paper on a granite surface plate or piece of plate glass to get the exact thickness desired. So the shim may be thinner than it's marked. Assuming it measures 3.70, your options are to either use a 3.65 mm shim, or lap the 3.70 shim down 0.3 - 0.4 mm. I use a sharp pointed probe tool with a bend about 1/2" from the tip. Something like one of these: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=1816 You find the notch on the side of the shim holder, slip the point in & break the oil film's surface tension loose. Then pick up the shim with a telescoping magnetic piciup tool. BTW, The film strength of motor oil is strong enough so that it can throw your measurements off when you go to check clearances after replacing the shims. So, before installing the new shims, clean all the motor oil off of the shims & carriers, then put a drop or 2 of a very light oil such as 3in1 in the carrier before replacing the shim. It will provide lubrication, but won't have a thick enough film to throw the measurements off.
Thanks for the reply, Verell. I just went to OSH and got a micrometer. I don't know why they call it a "micrometer" if it reads in inches. Beats me. I'll do another spread sheet and put the inch dimensions (I keep track of everything). Several mechanics told me about thinning off the shims instead of buying new ones. I'll try one tonight. I need to shave off about 0.05 mm. BTY. the rings with the seals came right off the other side. Thanks for the tip! Seals arriving on Tuesday from Rutlands. (Kudos to Mark from Rutlands). As soon as I removed the belt, the exhaust cam spun counterclockwise about 10 deg. I have marks on the belt and on the cam to align, plus the factory marks. The front bank is not an issue as the pistons are not on PM. But: What will happen with the rear bank? Will there be any chance of any valve hitting piston 4? I can't put blocks to stop the cams, as the cams will come off for the seals. Cylinders 1, 2 and 3 are fine, as they are all the way down or valves closed in 1.. My only concern is cylinder 4, which is in the PM, aspiration. Is there any possibility of the rear cams moving? I'm looking at intake 3 compressed and exhaust 2 compressed, those can spin. (that is why I started off with the front bank). Suggestions?
Point a blow gun nozzle at the notch with a magnet on the shim and it will pop right out. I have seen too many burrs left on the cam follower buckets from prying the shims out. A shot of air does the same with no mechanical interferance. Rear bank cams are in overlap on 1/4...they wont spin off the marks... front bank cams will. That's a lot of rubbing to get .002" off a shim while maintaining perfectly parallel surfaces.... is there an opposition to ordering the correct shims? We have all had to do it at one time or another but you are waiting for parts regardless.
Also, if you get your shims from a collection of used shims, do several measurments of the shim. They can waer into a 'dish', and if they have, look again for a nice flat one.
Good point, Jack. My philosophy on used shims, once they come out...is to discard them. Why take the risk? At roughly $1,600 to have a set of cams repaired, by bother fretting over a few bucks for some shims. A used shim, now used on a different cam lobe is just looking for a problem... As to the comments...a little sandpaper to get the correct size? I'd prefer to just do it right and buy a selection of the same sized, as marked, shims and pick the best one. In the 25 years I've been adjusting the valves on these cars, I've never had a problem finding the right shim to acheive the correct clearances. Then again, everyone has their preferences. David
Re-reading my statement it should be added that the shims can be used both sides and it is the outer rim that rests on the bucket. I don't see a problem if the side used on top is flat and the underside hollow, as long as the outer edge has a constant thickness (which I have never seen to not be the case, but don't take my word for it)
What other vehicles use these same shims? Are they the same as Volvos? What model? I'll go with my micrometer to measure them at the store, just to be on the safe side. I tried the magnet to remove the shims and wouldn't come off. Maybe I need a bigger one. I didn't try the air blasting as I was concerned about a shim flying off or something being blown into the engine. All the shims had a lot of scratches on the sides from previous attempts to remove them. Only one had the numbers still on them. It was a lot of sanding last night. I took several measurements around the shims and they came out pretty parallel, though not perfect.
Sanding shims is a bad idea. For one thing it will take forever to get much material off, and you will be leaving a surface finish that tou don't want anywhere near a cam. Also they are surface hardened. Your are just removing that. Shims are cheap. Do the future owners of the car a favor and do the job right. Buy new shims. Everyone wonders why professionals so often turn their noses up at do it yourselfers cars. There seems to be no end to what shortcuts get done in the name of saving a buck.
With its previous owners, my vehicle was only serviced by "professionals". It came with a history of big bills, shortcuts and minimal work. I only found one new shim in the engine; the rest were either turned around or sanded down. That is why I am doing the work myself or go to my mechanic down the street for big items. As being a DIY myself wanting to do things right, I am asking for help from the list. On Monday I am off looking for new ones.
Then they're not professionals just giving the illusion they are. Flipping a shim is fine, sanding no and anyone suggesting that you do is just wrong. Im not sure how thick the case hardening is but it cant be more than .004" maybe less so sanding even to remove a mark is a mistake let alone changing its thickness! Volvo 240 series....244 245 etc or 89 BMW M3 inline six. I use valve guide seals from an M3 as well, positive seal, no mods and less oil consumption. The shims are dollars each from volvo and usually a selection in stock. I got mine from the local volvo dealer then at a ford tech training class the teacher gave me a potato bag full of shims, I must have a thousand of them. They will fit my boxer too so dont ask for any! Good luck, its nice to see you care how the car gets fixed.
Its great you are looking to do it the right way. We see far too many with the "save a buck at any cost" attitude and that isn't doing the car any good. Finding good alternatives for a better price is fine, that is distinctly different from doing it the cheap way.
What if you have a proper surface grinder? I would really like to know this because some guy that makes shim under buckets and 333 sp parts re-ground some shims I gave to him "to analyze" ... he acted like he was saving me $ as he handed me a bill for $1k for some of his "goodies". Is this guy an idiot? I just used one of these shims in the only position that needed a different shim on one of my motors that has stock Ferrari cams that I do not want to f'k up. I can understand not going thru the hassle when the part is only a few $ but if you have a surface grinder sitting there and know what you're doing you can get more accurate than what the shim increment is ... but that is really stupid if the they're really only are surface hardened. I got the impression that they were like rock all the way thru. I guess I'll just take and grind all the way in half ... I just remembered one of my guys (employee) did this already way and he told me the shim was hard all the way thru when he tested it. I did not do it myself but I will now. cheers
I didn't want to revive the eternal discussion of new vs reuse vs grind vs sand of the shims. There are many great mechanics who have different opinions about what is right and wrong. I admire, respect and learn from each. I have seen a mechanic hand grinding pistons to make them lighter for his race truck. To him, grinding a shim is a no brainer. To me, it may be the end of my finger tips and a shim embedded in my eyeball. For this project, last year I bought the timing belt kit from Ferrari of Sacramento. I did other things in between. 4 weeks ago I jacked up the car to replace the belts over the weekend. My FOCD (Ferrari Obessive Compulsive Disorder) mind told me "while I'm at it"... and here I am... half an engine torn apart, replacing seals, gaskets, fuel lines, DOiT everywhere there is a connector, valve adjustment, ignition, etc. I don't mind the work, the problem is that it takes 1 week each time I order parts. When I get them, I start tearing something else apart and another week to get more parts. The cam seals are arriving on Tuesday and I don't want to wait another week for the shims. If I missed one, I'll just order the tool and replace the shims with the cams on. But, another wasted week. That is why I am looking for a faster alternative, like quality cross reference parts. Per what I searched on the forum, the shims of the 240 Volvo fit the 2V series, 32 mm diameter I believe.. I have the QV, 29 mm diameter, I believe. If I can get them right away in a local car parts store, I will be very happy. I prefer not having to special order shims from Rutlands and wait for 1 week just ti find out I miscalculated by 0.005 mm again. Does the Volvo 244 use the same shims as the Mondial;/308 QV 1984?
No, all 240 are 2-valve and use the big size shims. I don't know what the later Volvo 4-valve engines use, but someone here undoubtedly will tell you. Btw, there has been discussion on shim under bucket mods. Apart from a smaller and thus lighter shim (considerably so) this will need removal of the cams for valve clearance adjustment. I haven't heard about slipping shims other than on the forum, does this ever happen on a stock engine with in-spec shims?
Only an issue on missed shifts, ignored redlines and big cams. I am rebuilding a Daytona Factory race engine that flipped three shims out...a mess to clean up but doable. I have done a number of the shim under Cosworth style conversions but only on engines where it is justified due to cam lift fitting into the outragous catagory. Stock engine for the street...the design has stood the test of time as it was built, not justified. A few thousand race miles and I can easily measure embedding of the stem tip in the softer lash cap when the shim under conversion is done. Best left for an engine that is designed to be torn down every thousand miles. Lucky, The question can only be answered if you also know the Rockwell of the lobe...they are a mated pair and can NOT have the same hardness! I have no interest in seeing how deep the case hardening goes just to see if the cam lobe will like it over time. More than one set of head gaskets has been thrown away to nip the tip of the valve stem.
Richard, Granted on work on multiple Ferrari's, both two and four valve cars...and have large shims kits for both, However, for the price of shims which really is minimal...I always order a minimum of 5 shims, when I need/run out of a specific size. As you may know, a shim marked 4.00mm can really been between 3.97 and 4.02 mm. When measuring shims, I don't use a micrometer, but rather a snap gauge...as I feel it's more accurate. If you'd like, I can post a picture of the tool I use... And to further expand on Dave Helm's point, I too view the shim and the lobe as a matched pair...with the hardness of each being somewhat of an unknown. To have anyone suggest that grinding a shim is acceptable is clearly not the advice I would be taking as "professional" nor in your best interest. With parts like cams becoming rarer and rarer, never mind more costly by the minute, a little down time is a small price to pay. In terms of supplies for the 4V shims, I believe that FerrParts and Global ??? are in your back yard. Hope this helps.. Take care, David
According to my employee's notes he ground about .03" out of the shim and it was still at 50 Rc. It started around 53 Rc. I'm not convinced a person still needs the cam hardness based on this but I'm all ears. When I've had parts heat treated I recall a 2 pt spread in tolerance for hardness so kinda seems thru hard like a drill or end mill to me? I'm surprised that the guy (parts supplier) would have ground my shims at all if they were case hardened AFTER my Web cams failed! I totally respect you guys and I will call this parts supplier and kick him in the balls hard if I find out these shims are only case hardened ... it's Monday and I do my best ball kicking on Monday . cheers, Sean
Sean, I'm VERY interested in what you find the hardness depth to be. IIRC, about 3 or 4 years ago, it was posted (may have been you) that the shims were hard all the way thru. fastradio, That matches my experience, they seem to be marked size +/- 0.025. Except usually when I go to looking for one that's on the low side I discover that all the ones in my stock are either spot on, or on the high side. :{ Yes, would like a pix of the snap gauge. DaveHelms, Thanks for the advice about the burrs on the cam bucket. I'll watch out for them, altho I think my cheap probe is soft enough so that it probably won't scratch the bucket. I must not have the right kind of blow gun. I tried using it and it wouldn't pop the shims out. Suspect it's because the tip has the side vents that vent back pressure? IIRC the tip is replacable. Next time I'll turn a conical tip out on the lathe.
Following Verell's advice on Harbor Freight for the sharp toos, I bought them and also bought a 15 lb telescopic magnet. http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=95933 The diameter of the magnet matches the on of the shims. As soon as I got the magnet close to the shim, the whole tappet popped off! It caught me by surprize. It was harder to pry off the shims from the magnet than from the tappets. This worked great while the cams are off, it made the job enjoyable. With the cams on, I wonder if I get a second one and go around the cam with both.
Have a look at the Volvo tool te get the shims out. It's a pair of pliers with a stepped nose, that allows you to get around the cam-lobe and grab the shim. I need to source one of these, let me see if I can find a pic on the web somewhere.
Pic of a shim-pliers. This, however, is not exactly the pliers I mean: the Volvo dealers have pliers with a stepped nose, i.e. the grabbing nose is in a different plane than the handles. The step is (from memory) about 3/8 or so, and very close to the nose. Image Unavailable, Please Login
A couple pictures of the various "snap" gauges that I use, with the last one being my "favorite"... Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
