Shelby Daytona vs Dodge Viper HELP!!!!!!!!!!

I for one have never seen a Daytona in a show.

I've seen many Vipers.

And as for the bit about "the ones with money. . ." Well, Jay Leno has a few. The folks I've met with them all are pretty well off. In fact, a local F40 owner still has in his possession his 1993 Viper RT/10 which he has had since '93, and has owned a '96 GTS. Also a local owner of a Daytona did enjoy driving both of the previously mentioned Vipers.

Also I'm pretty sure that just about every one of the collectors "with money" that you have met does not have a Daytona, either.

But yes, one is a pure-bred race car with a lot of racing heritage. . . the other is a fairly sloppily built production car (although Vipers have a bit of racing heritage themselves). Obviously they are very different cars, but I think your friend is getting at their similar overall lines despite being decades apart. Even the original Viper roadster bears a lot of resemblance to the Cobras, from an overall design standpoint. The basic idea is the same, although the years and the purpose are very different.

 

IMHO, you're comparing apples to oranges. Fast-forward 40 years and I think people will look at the Viper in much the same way that you look at the Daytona now (although the Viper won't be nearly as rare). I would also have to agree with your friend that the Viper is the modern version of the Shelby Cobra.

 

I think the 1998 Viper GT2 is going to be a mid 6 figure car in 25 years.

 

Arent they selling for 100k+ now? I can assure you the Viper will be a very sought after car. No one can deny the performance it can put out when you strap some turbos on it. It does remind me of a Shelby daytona coupe.

 

Yeah they're slightly over $100k if you can find one. One of my grails but for now the RT10 will do.

IM biased though as the Gen II viper is my favorite non-supercar of all time.

 

Shelby didn't design the Viper or the Daytona. Pete Brock designed the Daytona. Not sure who penned the Viper.

 

Not to sound like too much of a dink, but it annoys me that there is soooooo much misinformation out there about Vipers, mostly from the magazine fanboi's who have never even owned a car worth more than a few grand, and base their automotive knowledge on what they read in car magazines. It reminds me of threads you can read over on the Grand Turismo (playstation game) forum where pimplefaced dorks argue about whether the Nissan GT-R V-spec could beat a Ferrari 430 CS around the Nurburgring if Michael Schumacher was in the GTR and Aryton Senna was in the Ferrari. Dorks will argue it despite it's utter irrelevance.

On the Viper, I disagree completely that it is not a classy car. You see virtually nothing like it on the streets. It's in an entirely different league, design-wise, from most of the other sports cars you see. They have tons of presence on the road, just like cars such as the Shelbys, Ferraris, Lambos, DeLoreans, etc. It's just a very unique and beautiful car. I think the Viper GTS will undoubtedly stand the test of time.

I'll respond to a couple of the more eye-catching posts individually.

 

Yes you are wrong.

I don't believe you that you have "met hundreds of collectors and the ones that have the money dont have a Viper in their collection". There are TONS of guys who have tons of money who have Vipers in their collection. I am guessing from the nature of your argument (and quite frankly, the stupidity of it) that you are a young guy. I also think you really don't understand what drives car collectors. Some people buy cars they loved as kids. Some people have a think for Italian, or British, or French, or German (or any other flavor of) cars.

If one was interested in American cars, then any collection of significant American cars would contain at least 2 Vipers, at least 3-4 Corvettes, some Mustangs, some Camaros and some others - such as Daytona, Cobra, etc. On the other hand, a guy who is into older Ferraris may not give a rats ass about a Viper. It is absolutely NOTHING to do with money, nothing at all.

Cars that were hot when I grew up were things like 328's and Testarossas and Countaches and when I was getting to around driving age it was 911 turbos and ZR-1's and such. If I were to assemble a collection some day it would absolutely have lots of American cars and Italian and German cars. Me personally, I don't really care about *anything* older than 1980's cars except for a very very few cars (probably less than 3-4). To suggest that there is some absolute criteria that can be applied to a car to call it a classy car or not one is just silly, just as it is equally silly to suggest that collectors with money don't buy Vipers, therefore they are not class-worthy cars.

And having said all of that, I have little doubt that Vipers - especially 1996 GTS's and 1998 GT-2's will be highyl sought after collectors items in years to come.

And even a cursory attempt at googling reveals that Carol Shelby was "a big part of the Dodge Viper development team", but not he himself did not pen the car anymore than he penned the Daytona.

 

I don't agree with this statement at all. The Viper is a fantastically built car. When you get under the car and look at the engineering, it's pretty good. Some folks (incorrectly) think of it as a car that was put together with bits from parts bins but to think so is to remain ignorant. It has an incredibly beefy engine, driveline, tranny, diff, clutch, etc. I can't think of a car that is more purpose-built than the Viper. It's one thing and one thing alone, a pretty mean streetand track performer. Because it is so overbuilt and overdesigned, these cars can take 1,500rwhp turbocharger systems on stock blocks and rotating assemblies. That's unheard of! Adding 1100rwhp without changing out the engine internals is something no other car can do, past or present. As for the actual build, few cars get as much attention to detail as Vipers. I've toured the factory as well as many other factories and there really is a lot of care and attention that goes into each Viper, moreso in the past than today, admittedly. They have the best paint I've seen on any car, Ferraris and Lamborghinis included. They go through lots of inspections during assembly and prior to delivery and they are a well put together car.

They have some annoying problems that crop up over time that are worthy of criticism, but I don't know how that would fall under the descriptor of "sloppily built". No more sloppy than Ferraris with dashes that turn to goo or valve guides that are bad from the factory or F1 hydraulic pumps that die with regularity and cost thousands to replace. All cars have their problems, and I would say Vipers are quite a bit better than most cars, much of that due to how simple of a car it is.

 

Yes the thing is bulletproof. It's a wonderful car.

The panels don't all line up quite right. The wiring or something in the car is funky. . . speakers come in and out, the tach sticks a little. There are no windows and doorhandles on the RT/10. The dash seems to be made out of some sort of weird hardened fabric that gets to looking nasty.

There's no attention to detail here. If it was made by BMW or Toyota people would have freaked out about this sort of stuff. But that's why we like it.

 

Spread the word brother !

I sold my Ferrari but kept the Viper ! Most enjoyable car ive ever owned or driven.

And dont feel you need to preach to the snot nosed kids that are simply brand whores cuz they wont listen.

 

Hmmm my panels line up fine... I have windows and a doorhandle on my RT10...Id rather the cheap plastic dash of my viper than the falling apart dash on my F355.

Ive never had a problem with any electrical gremlins or speakers going in and out.

In fact my viper is the most trouble free car Ive ever owned and that includes Honda, BMW, Benz, Ferrari and Nissan.

You must have lots of experience with vipers to be so knowledgable.

 

Well **** man you've got an '01 I've got 8 more years experience on you.

 

You're not quite wrong; you just missed your friend's point.

 

I personally dont see how you being a writer changes anything. You clearly state you are not experienced in muscle car collecting and thats where the viper fits in.

Most importantly , the viper isnt even 20 years old yet. As time passes and there are fewer and fewer clean examples you will see that they become more and more collectible.

The people you are referring to are not the 'viper crowd' and you know that. Therefore their opinons on this particular subject matter are biased. You can just as easily find a group of pre-war collectors that will frown upon 60s Ferraris. its easy to get what you want if you selectively chose the group you are surveying.

At the end of the day is a viper currently considered on the same level as a Shelby Daytona ? Of course not. Give it another 20 years though and you will see that vipers will be a common presence at the shows. For the younger collector, you know, the one that will be the seasoned collector in 20 years, the viper is definately a part of their stable.

FWIW...the reason you were mistaken for a snot nosed kid is the tone of your original post. Just because you are female and not a teenager doesnt mean you dont come across as one...

 

Owned mine five years. Only changed the oil.

Great built cars.

 

Peter Brock designed the Cobra Daytona Coupe. Viper race cred includes LeMans victories. It's as focused a production car as you'll come across - doubt dashboard design/materials held much sway in the purchase of most F40's, either. Know guys w/some pretty big dogs in the fight who also own Vipers. Don't know any who categorically dismiss the Viper. Doubt I get to as many shows as you, don't even own a lawn chair, but seems the "classy" part might come from the owner rather than the car.