Sharing 296GTB battery gone completely dead experience

In the photo, is the main battery being recharged with the battery refresh unit? Why not though the charging port?

 

My understanding is that the LV battery was causing the issue, so the solution should have been to "jump" it independently of the HVB. Besides, the charging port (that is common for HVB and LVB, as far as I understand) is more for maintaining than for reviving a discharged system.

 

Pretty wild to me that these are 500k+ sports cars and still in 2024 cannot be left unplugged for an extended period of time.... as the company marches towards electrification...

I have PTSD leaving my Speciale untethered to the trickle charger for more than a day or two, and yet I could leave my 911s in the garage for 4-6 months and fire right up, same for my fully electric Tesla Model S... Lol

 

can you describe exactly how it is that they charged/connected the LV battery to the outlet?

 

Hmm and you have the original lightweight battery? - had more problems with 765LT battery being lightweight than any exotic I've ever owned. Drove to the dealer holding drivers door with my hand on the highway! Mac's are the worst on electric draw I've ever experienced.
Their charging systems are the cheapest parts and tiny sized wires I've ever seen - had to buy special chargers to make the Senna and 765LT work and most Mac owners rewired their whole charging to get to the battery cost 3-4k on Senna. Dealers rewire in heavier gauge wires which handles a jump start on a dead battery vs taking the car apart.
I've left by mistake my 812 for over a month and starts right up - these new lightweight batteries are horrible.

 

The McLarens use the A123 Systems batteris as does Porsche... the reason they charge so much is because A123 makes them with a proprietary protocol for each manufactuerer so they can only speak to each manufacturers model thorugh Linbus. Just boloney attempts to make a massive margin on a battery... and while they should be lasting 8-10 years most are not getting that. You probably know but a few companies are offering a device that tricks the system to accept any type of battery for the McLarens...works on the 720 and a few others, not sure on the 765... but its basically the same as a 720 battery wise so it should. Then you can drop in an AGM or Antigravity.

 

Hi! I have the same problem my car just don't start, and have the eManettino failure, plug in immediately and can't start it, no Neutral, so can't tow it. Can I Jumpstart it? or need to charge the battery 12v disconnected and then connect it again?

 

in theory you can. I have done it a couple of time. You access the 12V battery behind a panel in passenger footwell. You then need to attach a pretty powerful battery source/ battery pack (not trickle charger) to it for at least 10-15 mins to build up sufficient charge to power the systems and crank it up. I had the road side assistance guys (Ferrari Assistance) do this. Then try and start it in Race or Quali mode and take it for a decent drive to quick charge both batteries. Then when finished plug it in. The Ferrari app tells you state of charge of both batteries.

 

Be careful, the owners manual clearly states do not jump start. While jump starting is easy on a regular car on a hy brid there can be issues . If it were me I would call Ferrari

 

Just did that... WORKS! Used the Jump Starter just to pump the battery, then connected the car with the battery charger Ferrari.... wait 10minutes ant started the car... no problems after that... Jumpstarter was a 2125amps... next time will use a better one cuz this one get drain in less than a minute lol.

 

You’re welcome - again my Ferrari dealer in UK has no issue with this if it’s the only option. Many cars in London live in underground parking so not easy to just trailer them away. The problem is unlike in normal ICE vehicles the alternator doesn’t just charge the low voltage battery whenever you are driving it but when the software tells it to. Hence you can think it should be well charged from driving it for long periods or plugged in but it isn’t necessarily. The app should in theory tell you level of charge but not sure how accurate it is. Also note it discharges within an hour or two if you you accidentally leave the car on. Don’t ask me how I know.

 

Hi all, we are new sponsors to FC, Antigravity Battteries (own a 296) we actually have a tremendous amount of experiance in this area...meaning batteries, understanding the systems that have low voltage batteries, and what you can do to awaken the system they are attached to. How to awaken the Lithium Porsche, McLaren, Ferrari Lithium Batteries made by A123 System from their protection modes. Why Ferrri, Porsche and others went to Lithium batteries. What is the best Charging methods for batteries, and why certain systems have higher draws than others... and so on. Some of you already know these answers and that great, other who don't know we'd be glad to answer any questions.

So within the facts I state, I will often bring up products we manufacture... and yes I am marketing, but I am not here to just market because we believe if we educate, speak factually, and be part of the community, then the members can do the reasearch themselves which may lead back to us. I will always answer factually, and be blunt and honest, but if our product can assist or resolve an issue I will openly say that and prove it out. I will also toot our own horn because we are stoked about the achievements of some of our products. So I'm just front loading our first posts with how we do things. So take that as you will, we know forums are the toughest crowd, but we have been on Rennlist for 7 years and other forums as well so we've been there and done that over and over. Also there is alot we can learn from members here so we will be asking questions too.
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So I'll try to post a few things that may or may not help some.

So as this_thread points out some of the Low-Voltage (LV) batteries in the 296 have gone dead and leave the Car in a position that it won't start. As others have mentioned this is because the LV Battery actually controls the Cars main computer initialization system, as well as some other systems in the Car. This is typical of hybrids and electric vehicles. In fact all the Teslas have a Lead/Acid (now some have lithium) LV batteries system, as well as Porsche Taycans etc., and when these batteries go dead, as posted the Cars won't start.... Oh here's an example of me tooting our horn... Tesla buys our MICRO-START XP-20HD jump Starter for their Techs who do the Roadside assistance to use our MICRO-START to wake the computer system and supply energy for the initialization of a bricked car.


So obviously it ultra important to keep that low-voltage battery in a good state of charge, but the Ferraris system uses A LOT of the batteries energy with all its Ferrari silliness when opening the door it has a big screen turning on, the front lights go on and so on... that a big draw on the Small LV battery they put in the 296 and SF90s, then in a static state when sitting in the garage it is still having a higher level of parasitic draw if not plugged in because it is still monitoring the car. So, eventually if someone is not diligent they are going to end up with an over-discharge LV Battery. So the LV battery they put in the 296/SF90 is a 50Ah Battery, but though it is rated at 50 Amp Hours does not mean it provides 50Amp Hours of Capacity in fact Lead/Acid only provides 1/2 it rated capacity... so it can discharge quicker than you think.

Anyway, to end this I have found in my testing of our 296 system, which I'm sure is the same as the SF90 system, that the HV system is charging the 12v LV battery when unplugged for as long as it can... but at some point when the HV is low then I assume that is when the LV Battery is going to lose its remaining capacity then make the Car unstartable. Here is the Charging Profile of the 296 when unplugged...it also remains the same when plugged in so I can confirm the HV charges the LV also. Just don't let both get too low.

 

This is helpful. Question - are you saying you have tested your MICRO START 20HD and shown it is able to restart a “bricked” 296 or SF90 on its own? Does it discharge completely in the process?

also how does this produce compare with something like a NOCO BOOST HD GB70 which is commonly available in UK?

 

Hey Dino,

Firstly, I have NOT Tested the MICRO-START XP20-HD for restarting a 296, or SF90, but let me clarify that by saying I don't believe a Jump Starter is needed to awaken the 296, or to send a Pulse to awaken the Car's system so it can boot up. I'll explain below.

What appears to have happened in the posts I've read, is that the Low Voltage Battery/Starter Battery has simply been over-discharged, and while someone said they connected a Jump Starter to the LV Battery, I don't think that would be neccessary (in most cases) because they could simply put a Charger on the LV battery and recharge it normally, then when the LV Battery reaches a sufficient level of charge the Car will recognize that and allow the reboot and engine start to take place. The ONLY TIME you would really need the jump starter is IF your LV Battery was discharged BELOW the Charger's minimum voltage requirements. For example , let's use a CTEK Charger... that CTEK Charger needs to see a minimum voltage at the battery terminals before it will actually start charging a Battery, this is a built-in safety feature that most Chargers like the CTEK have. So this protection mechinism will NOT start charging unless the Charger see a minimum of 2-3v at the Batteries terimals, in that circumstance you would need a Jump Starter to attach to the Battery to "trick" the Charger into thinking it connected to a battery that is resting above the minimum of 2~3v, then it will start charging. So if your discharge LV battery has above 2-3v you would simply need to connect a Proper Charger on it and recharge it and the Car should reboot and start after a little time.

Another Question you asked is if a MICRO-START XP-20 or NOCO GB70 type Jump Starters would RE-START the 296s system. Well that is sort of a unknown still but I will be testing for this. But let me explain the factors at work. Firstly a Jump Starter will not really recharge your Battery. For example If you have a 50Amp Hour 12v LV Starter Battery (which the 296 has), that is 600 watt hours... but our MICRO-START XP-20HD is an 88 Watt Hour device... so it really won't put all that 88watt hours into a battery when you attach them, the Lithium just offers a small capacity, but super high PULSE of Current to get the Car started, so it doesn't work as a charger so to speak. But, what the Jump Starters can do, for a little bit of time, is TRICK the 296 into thinking it has a solidly charged battery and Voltage level, which would "possibly" allow the 296 assume it has a decently charged battery attached and awaken and allow you to get its ICE motor Started... but I have not proven that out fully yet... and the posts I have read have not confirmed it. So that is something that needs to be tested for to prove out.

I'll answer your question about the Antigravity XP20-HD and NOCO GB70 in below in a new post so this one doesn't get too wordy.

 

It interesting that you ask this question because we made a Graphic long ago to compare these two units since they are generally in the same price range. Bear in mind NOCO is a fine product, I am not trying to put it down, it is well built. But apples to apples we beat them up a bit... Yes we know they are massive on Amazon, but in commercial use we are often the go to Jump Starter. For example we offer a 30% more powerful and larger capacity battery inside our XP20-HD, yet the XP-20 is literally 50% smaller in size (cubic volume) than the NOCO GB70, our clamps are also detachable and we give you a carry bag. We offer 100w TYPC C ultra fast charging and can power/charge) Laptops even, the GB 70 offer 15w charging with the older Micro USB port that could do a Phone but not a newer Tablet or Laptop. We offer a digital screen that show watting coming in and going out... they use Led lights. You can fully recharge our XP20HD in and HOUR with it 100w Charger that comes with it. The GB70 take more than 4 hours to recharge. So its just a differrent level of product being blunt. All facts no false statements....

We do have a UK distributor of our product, don't know the cost over there though.

 

I am one of your happy customers. I have your lithium batteries in my 2019 Speedster and my 2018 GT3. So far… Great!

 

Thanks for the detailed explanation! Let me know if you do run any tests to try to start a completely dead 296 or SF90 from your XP20HD (and competitors?)

 

They are £216.99 inc VAT in the UK. Before purchasing (because you've sold me on it)... a few questions. I will rarely use one of these.. might be two years or even longer. How long will it hold charge for? How should it be left to prolong it's life and what is its lifespan if left unattended?

 

My low voltage battery had a CPU failure. Battery was ok, but alarm went off signaling trouble with the LVB. The alarm wouldn't stop even if the car was locked .. best way to drain the battery. Ferrari played new software on the CPU, did not work, got now a new one on warranty.

3 weeks without the car for a battery ...

 

Good questions!

- Regarding how long will it hold a charge... Lithium Batteries can hold a charger for a long time, BUT it is not so long that you can leave it 2 years without charging. On these smaller battery products it has a smaller battery capacity and it can "self-discharge" in about 8 months. For example you would want to check the level of charge about once every 4-5 months to ensure you have about a 75% charge so you can easily Jump Start a Car. Even though it can hold a charge for 8 month and sometime a year, that does not mean its fully charged after 8 months, it migh have about 30% energy... which is fine for recharging an Phone but not really for getting a good jump start on a bigger Motor like a V8 or larger Motor. So you have to consider that.

- Regarding getting the longest life, that is pretty easy, just charge it once every few months if you are not using it... say every 4 months to keep it ready. Do not expose it to direct sunlight like on a Dashboard because direct heat on a dash can reach over 65 degrees C (at least in very sunny hot areas). But honestly you can actually use it ALOT, meaning I use it to Charge my phones constantly since it is so much faster at charging than the Car is. I also run my laptop quite a few times a month, so by using it I'm also recharging it often when driving, but it recharges super fast in the car with it provided charger.

-Regarding lifespan unattended and un-used, its about a year before it loses all its energy and is completely discharged... but that is not its ideal use being blunt, because when you over-discharge lithium batteries (or any battery) deeply they have a shorter lifespan and can be damaged. Lifespan in general is about 4-5 years if regularly used. We have older unit as old as 8 years in our MICRO-STARTs but the lifespan is rate on a general use type. lower use can result in longer lifespans, but keeping it relatively well charged it the most important factor.

- This particular model the XP-20 could start the most difficult to start motor like larger Diesel Truck up to 7 Liters like we have in the USA. So for another car you can get a smaller Version of this product actually... but this is our Flagship model so to speak with all the bells and whistle like super fast recharge, 100w output and input etc.

 

Could you explain that more? Are you saying you got a new Battery on Warranty? Because earlier you say Battery was OK, but alarm went off.

 

The battery was ok but there is some sort of CPU in it which was defective even with new software installed. So Ferrari replaced the whole battery.