Shaking Conventional Wisdom | FerrariChat

Shaking Conventional Wisdom

Discussion in '348/355' started by Roth, Feb 8, 2021.

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  1. Roth

    Roth Formula Junior

    Apr 1, 2016
    433
    Pepsi Generation
    Hello boys and girls. It’s been about 10 years into a 355 F1 ownership. From experience and through various literatures from owners and talking heads, Im closer to a complete understanding of its inner working. Lets cover some of the contentious subjects. Before we begin here’s a common guideline. Ferrari are not daily drivers. Collectively they average less than 1/10 of the standard yearly milage. Most wear and tear repair are related to time not use. Now, I’m not trying to write workshop manual. Just facts and opinion based on my experience through ownership.



    Engine out, timing belt replacement. This subject is the most divisive. I’ve witness bar fights, broken marriages, even moral enemies between neighbors and families. Ferrari suggest belt change every 3 years, why? Manufacturers of all things are require to provide informations on their product highest rating. The 3 year belt change suggestion is due to the 355 engine high operating ceiling. At 10,000 rpm redline at 8,500, it’s a race engine in street cars. It was the most advance engine of its era. Based on this fact, three year belt change interval is conservative and no more different than today Ferrari belt change interval. The difference is the engine out aspect of it. Truth is no Ferrari ever get driven at its highest operating ceiling for any length of time. So what is an ideal belt change interval on a 355? My opinion, is every 7 years. Stretchable to 8 or sooner at 6. Five years or less is wasting money. Of course if you high strung your 355 daily more than 15,000 miles a years then do it sooner. So lets 7 years interval as guide, how much does it cost to do a belt change and other minor details. Six thousand is consensus from shops and gear heads near my area. Let’s throw in another thousand dollar for odds and ends such as water pump replacement. Thats $7,000 every 7 years. A $1,000 a year. The cost of maintenance on most luxury cars is between $1,000-$1,500 a year. The 355 engine out service cost is comparable to any modern luxury car. The added bonus, every engine out, is a total cleansing.



    The electronics. The 355 electronics is not sophisticated. Rather, it’s the abundant of simplicity in sensors and switches dependent on one another operation is the cause of failure. The spider top is most notorious. Second by the immobilizer remote replacement. Both of these system can be bypassed. The spider top can operate independently. The immobilizer can be bypassed electrically. Just need the physical key.



    The SD light. Every experienced it from time to time. It s more a nuisance than a nuisance than a costly system failure. Here are some symptoms. SD flashes at start up. SD flashes randomly while driving. SD flashes but driving situation the same. SD flames then goes off. SD flashes when tempter gauge reads normal. All these flashing does not mean the TCU or the ECU is bad. In fact it mean the ECU is working properly and the TCU is likely not the issue. There are three components at play here. The ECU is the receiver. The TCU is the sender. Internet conversations place a magnifying glass on the TCU and ECU. Theres another part of the system, the conduit, the pathway, the communication line. Based on the nuisance flashing I got and testimony from other owners, the like failure is the communication line. Clean the connectors, check the wires. Once or twice remove, clean the TCU.



    The F1 system is probably the most misunderstood unit. A failure can mean many things associated with the unit. When the key is in the second position, the pump primes. Its audible for about half a minute at first activation. If you can hear the pump, it’s working. When cold, at rest, the F1 fluid level should read between the marks on the dip stick. When running, it should fall below the bottom mark. If the level is between the marks with engine off and fall below the bottom mark, it’s good. Hint, if the pump fail, the fluid level will not change level and no audible pump noise. Pump running continuously implies a low fluid or a leak in the system. Gear shift operation depends on hydraulic fluid pressure. Other factors apply. I haven’t heard anyone mention this but a worn out clutch affect the F1 operation. It will not up shift properly if at all. I suppose the middle man is the speed sensor on the transmission.

    Right, wrong, what's your opinion?
     
    Tangospell likes this.
  2. tres55

    tres55 F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Sep 18, 2012
    3,481
    Canada
    I would say all issues the 355 has have been well documented on this forum and others. Ownership costs come down to how anal you are and a lot of the suggested timelines by Ferrari are more to cover their own asses than anything IMO. If I was a manufacturer and wanted to keep warranty claims down I would also implement insane maintenance schedules. :p

    That said I think the 5 year mark is fair middle ground. You could push it to 7-8 years I'm sure with visual inspections on the integrity of the belt along the way but personally I wouldn't wait that long.

    The F1 system can be completely rebuilt and refurbished for $3-4k. Not much considering originally a single component had a 5 digit price tag on it. I would love to own one of each (F1 and Manual) as I think the F1's are undervalued and will end up being highly sought after as the earlier "automatic" optioned Ferrari available to future collectors who may not care for, or know how to, drive a manual.
     
    MAD828 likes this.
  3. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 20, 2015
    11,484
    Sydney
    Full Name:
    Ian Riddell
    There are probably too many variables to consider. I guess it would depend on things like how thorough the annual services are and how observant the owner is. I do my own annual services, but only have a lift which puts the car 2 feet off the ground. I did miss a coolant leak at the front of the car (albeit minor) and an oil leak near the aircon compressor. The engine outs are often a chance to find small faults before they get worse. But then you have to factor in the skills of the person doing the major. Is he more likely to break something during the engine out? We know engine outs come with risks (especially on 5.2's where the engine harness runs through the bulkhead). After my last major, I ended up with a gearchange problem.
    How often does your aircon system need to be serviced? I had mine done on the last major (quite cheap and I didn't have to leave the car with someone I didn't know/trust). I'm hoping it will last until the next major.

    I changed my cats 2 years ago, but I have only added 300 or so kilometers to my "mileage". Do I really need TCUs or should I fit cheap ($49/pair) no-cat/dummy TCU plugs for 10 years and refit the carefully stored TCUs for later?

    I thought the most common immobiliser fault was the siren battery? Is the owner the type who buys a new siren when it fails, or does he cut open the siren and fit new batteries every, say 6 years before the batteries corrode the circuit board making it unrepairable. This could be done on the major.

    I've never driven my car in the rain and salt isn't put on roads here, so I don't have to worry too much about corrosion.

    I think I would be comfortable with 5~6 years between majors, with the tyres changed on a similar time scale.
     
  4. kryten2001

    kryten2001 Formula 3

    As far as major's go, I'm comfortable with 4 years. Minors every year no matter what.

    I could easily do the minors myself (they are crazy simple) but I still get a F mechanic to do it because I want to maintain my cars impeccable service history. It's important to me and I know it'll be important to the next owner as well.

    Aircon is interesting. Mine seems to very gradually leak which means it requires regassing every 4 years or so. Might be a teensy leak somewhere which I'll get checked again on its next major, or maybe a gradual leak over 4 years is just normal for these cars?
     
  5. spaghetti_jet

    spaghetti_jet Formula Junior

    Jan 5, 2005
    846
    Europa
    Full Name:
    Bob
    My 355 has been rock solid. I've owned the car 17 years now and the things that have "gone wrong" have all been service items. I had much more trouble with some of the brand new modern cars I've owned along the way -- a 2nd gen Volvo XC90 that was diabolically bad and I ended up forcing the dealer to take back and a few year before that a brand new Mercedes E-class that kept breaking down or refusing to start. I'd never buy either of those brands again, but another 355? All day long.

    Moral: it's possible to be unlucky and there are examples on this board of people who had issues, but the 355 is not fundamentally "poor quality".
     
    Mmckee and kryten2001 like this.
  6. taz355

    taz355 F1 Veteran
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Feb 18, 2008
    5,942
    Indio Ca/ Alberta
    Full Name:
    Grant
    I have found over almost 20 years not too many problems other than the ones I have inflicted.
    Within first 5 I changed the exhaust, headers, pipe and other than a transmission that was partially damaged by first owner I have inflicted more damage than the car.
    1 clutch as well.
    No drag races but lots of 8k shifts
     
  7. taz355

    taz355 F1 Veteran
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Feb 18, 2008
    5,942
    Indio Ca/ Alberta
    Full Name:
    Grant
    When my clutch wore out there was no problem shifting but it started to slip at about 5500 and full throttle
     
  8. mclaudio

    mclaudio Formula 3

    Dec 13, 2003
    1,236
    Seattle area
    Full Name:
    Claudio
    $224/month is my service/maintenance expenses including engine out (which is every 7 years for me), unscheduled work (like replacing cracked oil pan due to hitting something in middle of road), subtle weight reduction projects (street-registered Challenge race car). Driving enjoyment, even in the rain, is well-worth the cost.

    BTW, your best line in post: “...added bonus, every engine out, is a total cleansing...”.
     

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