SDL with new hyperflows, new rear o2 sensors, changed oil and reinstalled right temp | Page 12 | FerrariChat

SDL with new hyperflows, new rear o2 sensors, changed oil and reinstalled right temp

Discussion in '348/355' started by drbob101, Apr 6, 2014.

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  1. johnk...

    johnk... F1 World Champ
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    Good.
     
  2. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
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    I have noticed this problem too with new TC vs old TC since I monitor EGT manually bypassing TCU's completely. What we need is the graph of voltage output vs. temperature. I bet that 0.5V is a significant variation on temperature. In the docs for this system you posted before I can't remember if there was such a graph.
     
  3. johnk...

    johnk... F1 World Champ
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    Referenced to 32 F as 0 V, 2.2 V would be about 1032 F, 2.7 V about 1260 F. (0.0022 V/F)
     
  4. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
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    That's what I thought. So new TC to Old TC there is a 200*F spread. Interestingly I have that issue right now with my manual monitoring but only a 100*F spread. I think TC aging is an important issue because this aging cuts the window down before the TCU's trigger SDL and limpmode. We will see operational ranges of 1400-1000*F and a 200*F ageing delta is significant.

    It seems that all K type TC's are the same. Do you know a way or different robust K TC's like milspec or FAA certified or something to ensure consistent TC outputs? I think we would benefit from reliable inputs.
     
  5. johnk...

    johnk... F1 World Champ
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    #280 johnk..., Jul 26, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2014
    If it's aging the only thing that can be done is better shielding. But ultimately the wire composition and crystal structure change over repeated heat cycles leading to inaccuracy. But I don't know if this could account for a 200 degree F variation.
     
  6. drbob101

    drbob101 F1 Rookie
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    We are talking fractional voltage changes representing triple digit temp changed. I can readily see how this system can become quirky over time.

    Fbb.. Egt has a few Tc options in k type beyond what I got from them. His comment on posing the question you proffered was that the ones I got from them are typically fine in this type of application.

    I ll have the other new ones Friday and am going on an FCA ride Saturday. We shall see. 😉
     
  7. johnk...

    johnk... F1 World Champ
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    Well, all I know is that we spent another trouble free day in my 95 today. About 150 miles running around northeast CT with a lunch stop ant one of my favorite pubs.
     
  8. drbob101

    drbob101 F1 Rookie
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    Maybe in the fall we will take a ride up
    There John and spend a night. Would be fun to get together.
     
  9. 308 GTB

    308 GTB F1 World Champ
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    Feb 7, 2002
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    Barry Wolinsky
    You gotta love M.Y. 1995! Before my recent major service, my 1995 F355 Challenge would get a CHECK ENGINE 1-4 light if it idled for more than 30 seconds. It went off soon after picking up speed. Now both CHECK ENGINE 1-4 and 5-8 lights come on and go off within a second of each other with the same maneuver.

    My car is working perfectly!! :D
     
  10. johnk...

    johnk... F1 World Champ
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    I did get a couple of 1-4 flickers earlier this year. Code said O2 sensor. Ordered one from Rock Auto for $63. Not so much as a blink since I put the new one in. I have a hard time calling replacing an O2 sensor a problem. I had to replace one on my Toyota truck and it cost almost twice as much as the 355 sensor. I guess my 355 is as reliable as my Toyota. The Toyota unit was also from Rock Auto. It was cheaper to fix my 355 than my Toyota pickup. See 355s are not expensive to maintain. :)

    Oh, and yea, what is that TC doing in the by pass loop on an OBD car? 95's don't have it.
     
  11. drbob101

    drbob101 F1 Rookie
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    I have yet to he a clear explanation of what the bp Tc does. As I said I see it outputting .50-,70 v. Hardly a wife enough range given the lack of exactness of this system to be diagnostic for the ecu.
     
  12. SoCal1

    SoCal1 F1 Veteran
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    It simply looks for a temperature when the bypass should be open. To tell if the bypass is working correctly or the cat in the bypass pipe is OK as the post cat TC's do to tell you the big cats are working.

    "emission controls"
    :)
     
  13. drbob101

    drbob101 F1 Rookie
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    Ok. What does it do with that info? Does it have anything to do with sdl? Does it trigger a cel? Does it impact fuel trim?
     
  14. SoCal1

    SoCal1 F1 Veteran
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    If any part of the emission catalyst monitoring system shows an over heat mode it will throw a SDL putting it into a limp mode. If any part stays out of perimeter it will throw a CEL stating the Emission System is malfunctioning, check it :)

    After the engine gets to 163 degrees the fuel trim runs off the 02 sensors
    Load vs coolant temp vs throttle position vs rpm vs coolant temp triggers the fuel trim amounts. Did I say coolant temp? That seems to be all over for calculations and a very important thing you have a most excellent cooling sensor and connections


    Were still mapping the ECU, at this time it appears
    These two seem to be on separate circuits.

    Now what did I say? LOL
     
  15. drbob101

    drbob101 F1 Rookie
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    #290 drbob101, Aug 5, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Here is the new TC designed as a direct replacement for the OEM product.

    The length of the probe is correct, the angle of the bend is correct, the length of the shielded lead is correct and the nut has the correct thread to fit the cat thermocouple fitting on 355s and 550s.

    If you do this yourself it will cost you about $75 each and require ordering the connectors, crimping and installing them and drilling and tapping the compression cap with the correct drill and tap set.

    I would suggest anyone having SDL issues to first replace all the TC. They do have a finite life and 16 years is probably pretty much at the outside of their expected life. The leads and the connectors are suspect as well.

    The OEM cost on these is $261.25 pn 157501

    http://www.ricambiamerica.com/product_info.php?products_id=203643
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  16. Dave rocks

    Dave rocks F1 World Champ
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    Bob,why can't you get the proper nut from the TC manufacture? Drilling out an existing thread and re-tapping a different thread over it is less than ideal, and depending on the existing thread, it might not be possible.

    EDIT - I meant compression cap - not nut.
     
  17. drbob101

    drbob101 F1 Rookie
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    It is done and it works fine. Drilling and tapping that nut is a piece of cake, I did it myself.

    The issue involves mating the diameter of the TC probe, the compression coupling that fits said probe and the thread size and timing that exists on the cats.

    This project required a lot of time and sourcing and testing other probes and sizes and sourcing the correct sizes and thread fitment.

    It is ideal and the original nuts were drilled and tapped so drilling and tapping this is nothing more than machining it to fit. Hardly less than ideal it is how the nuts are originally manufactured.
     
  18. Dave rocks

    Dave rocks F1 World Champ
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    I'm not understanding, Bob. You mention nut is correct but need to tap compression cap - can you post a picture please?
     
  19. drbob101

    drbob101 F1 Rookie
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    I am referring to the compression cap/nut that fixates the probe to the cat. The cap/nut that is pictured on the probe.

    There is a hole in that cap that has to match the diameter of the probe. In this case 3/16". The standard thread in that cap of a 3/16" compression fitting does not fit the thread on the cat bung. By drilling and tapping that cap/nut it fits perfectly and correctly fixates the probe to the cat.
     
  20. Dave rocks

    Dave rocks F1 World Champ
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    OK, I was confused because you stated above: "and the nut has the correct thread to fit the cat thermocouple fitting on 355s and 550s." Then you stated you needed to drill and tap it.

    If I'm missing something, let me know.
     
  21. drbob101

    drbob101 F1 Rookie
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    The probe as sourced comes with the nut as pictured, with no connector. The nut as it is received with the probe has incorrect threads for our cars and needs to be tapped and the correct connector needs to be attached.

    I was describing the completed piece after doing the abovein saying that it has the correct thread to fit.
     
  22. Dave rocks

    Dave rocks F1 World Champ
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    If the need was high enough, we could bang out 100 or 200 of the nuts in my shop for a pretty affordable price and then they would not need alteration and the plating would not get cut away from tapping them. Even better, we could make them from stainless steel so not plating would be required.
     
  23. drbob101

    drbob101 F1 Rookie
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    #298 drbob101, Aug 5, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  24. Dave rocks

    Dave rocks F1 World Champ
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    That's good.
     
  25. drbob101

    drbob101 F1 Rookie
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    Interesting discovery. If the cat ecu is unplugged from the harness the signal line reads 5v.

    I checked it on two of them and that's what is there so there is a baseline voltage in the signal line overridden by the cat ecu?

    Do all of the main ecu data lines carry this 5v?

    I would have expected it to be zero
     

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