New to the site - great site. I have a 08 Scuderia with 3500 miles on it. Purchased from Ferrari of Houston last year and had about 550 miles on it. I noticed recently that the carbon fiber panels in the engine bay and the oil reservoir are turning white. Is this a common problem? I have searched the web and have found very little/no information regarding this issue. Ferrari's website says the carbon fiber will hold up to the engine temps, so I'm not sure what to do and where to go from here. It takes the fun out of showing someone the engine when the engine bay is discolored. I appreciate any help. Thx, CG
The inherit heat in a mid-engine car takes time to dissipate after a run. I place a fan on a stand after driving the car......leave the hatch open. The Ford GT too fries the vents over time (if the hood is consistently left closed). Try this and you will minimize further deterioration. For some reason the 08s and some 09s were more prone to discoloration. One panel on mine was changed under warranty before I bought the car.
I appreciate your quick response. This being my first jaunt into the world of supercars, I have to say I am not very pleased with the way "information" flows from Ferrari regarding "issues" with their cars. I have spoken to at least 3 different people and have received 3 different causal/non-causal responses but all 3 said that in the end there was nothing that they could do. I appreciate the look of the carbon fiber but if it cant actually hold up to the rigors of the engine temps another material should have been used. But then again, I understand the trade-off for using another material heavier than CF and the performance issues associated with heavier materials. This all being said - I guess I am most upset with the lack of upfront knowledge which was not passed on to me by the dealer when I bought the car and the unwillingness by Ferrari to replace a "defective" part(s) on a car that is past it's warranty due to calendar days not mileage. One would presume that customer service at Ferrari would be the best/among the best. I haven't found this to be the case so far. Maybe they will step up and do the right thing - if they do I will post for those who are interested. I wish the dealer I purchased this car from would have passed along the same information you did. Again - thank you for your quick response.
Replacement aside, you may well be able to improve the appearance by using a cutting polish that you would use on paintwork on the carbon fibre. This thread may be of interest: http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=298147
I think all of the engine compartment carbon will end up being a negative on Scuds when they are on the cold side of the warranty replacements which dont seem guaranteed anyway. I hope the intake plenum lasts, that could be a non cosmetic disaster.
Perfect link. Time to get my hands dirty. I appreciate all of the quick and helpful responses. If I had began this post sooner, I would have saved 4 weeks by not having to screw around with Ferrari. Thanks to all again.
Some that turned yellow were replaced under warranty. It looks like yours wasn't. This is why you get some strange answers. I've never heard of turning "white" though.
I've never heard of them turning white either. Maybe somebody put wax or some sort of sealant chemical on them? Hopefully, they can be rebuffed out to look perf again.
From what I have seen, all '08 Scuds have this problem, particularly bad is the coolant tank cover. It also affects early '09s. Not statistically speaking, but seeing '09s, it appears Ferrari made a change in the manufacturing or supplier starting in the new calendar year Jan '09. Those latter cars do not seem to have significant yellowing/milky of the CF, at least during the typical low Ferrari miles that I have seen (of a few year old car). Who knows if this will last say 10 years or 20K miles out, etc. For reference, mine has almost 6K miles and no noticeable yellowing/milkiness in the CF. Also, I have not seen any Scuderia intakes with yellowing (any year), so this was obviously made using a different process and physically looks different than the general engine bay panels (looks much better, too). As you have found out the hard way, buying a used car with very few miles comes with the risk that early-life failures will not have surfaced at the time of purchase, despite inspection, etc., although this is a very well-known problem with Scuderias. FerrariChat is your friend. Also, if you have the CF option on the headlights, every one of those seems to have a spidering/crazing problem of the plastic lens (appears unrelated to the CF itself). So far, those have been replaced if under warranty, but it is too early to know if those being replaced are just the same (defective) as those that originally failed. In your case, assuming you are out of any extended warranty, you have two likely options. First, of course, is to live with it. Second, is that I have heard that Ferrari was not replacing the CF in the engine compartment, but rather sending them to a place on the East Coast to have them refinished. I have some bubbling in my CF (actual manufacturing defect -- not in engine compartment) that will be sent out to be refinished. I will try to find out the name/location of this place as it will probably be useful in the future for CF problems/repairs. I would not think that polishing will address the problem as it is not a surface oxidation but rather a problem throughout the clear/resin. I am not knowledgeable enough to know how the various CF parts are refinished. Good luck...
Heat resistance is supposed to be a quality of carbon fiber. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon-fiber-reinforced_polymer As for warranty, Ferrari have for years saved untold millions because for most owners, the warranty times out long before the mileage limit is reached. Often, the ultra low mileage nature of most owners' driving isn't enough to surface even the most basic defects. Then if the time limit is expired, Ferrari denies the claim as too late. If Ferrari allowed claims based on mileage rather than time, or often made exceptions, they'd have virtually unlimited warranty exposure as most owners would never reach the mileage limit. So, understandably they draw the line at time, unlike most other manufacturers who might still give you "goodwill" coverage under these circumstances. This is why buying a Ferrari with a moderate number of miles can make better sense than buying an ultra low mileage car, as it stands a better chance of having been sorted under warranty.
Its very easy to sand it down nd re clear coat, lets not get out of bed on this, its a simple and cheaply resolved issue
It's a common problem on the airbox covers and coolant overflow tank. They can be replaced by Ferrari if under warranty, or simply refinished. I saw a refinish job on these pieces last weekend that was essentially OEM, so that's the route to go if your car is out of warranty. Your local dealer should be able to point you in the right direction of someone who can do this. If not, PM me and I will put you in touch with someone who can.
Not really, unless re-conditioned with the appropriate resin. We are referring to the engine compartment components which are very thin. If you sand,you will be hitting the material cross threads. As others have posted, the panels and/or covers need to be re-surfaced by a professional CF service. Buffing enhances the shine,but the discoloration is below the surface too.
I bought a grossly discolored and misty looking expansion tank cover for my scud project car. I had it sanded down and removed every trace of factory resin. It was then given three coats of hard lacquer. Now it looks better than the finish on my carbonio airbox lids. Fresh off my iPhone via Tapatalk
My 08 had the same issue. All replaced in 2010 under warranty before it expired including air boxes, fluid cover and one large side panel. Replacements don't seem to fade.
Image Unavailable, Please Login My expansion tank cover, fresh from eBay. Two words. Absolute dog****! Fresh off my iPhone via Tapatalk
Image Unavailable, Please Login After the Midas touch. Better than new!!! Pardon the yellow green hue and dusty emvironmrnt. Stupid iPhone camera. Fresh off my iPhone via Tapatalk
Bob. Simple formula. Wet finegrade sandpaper, loads of patience, bulletproof thumbs. It really removes the factory resin. All of it!!!! Fresh off my iPhone via Tapatalk
I am sorry you're going through the same fading issues with engine bay CF parts. I was told that Ferrari's supplier used a wrong kind of resin thus the resin becomes cloudy and fades in color with heat generated by nearby engine parts. They cannot be polished because the whole resin is discolored. I had mine refinished with FNA's help through a shop called Magnum in Georgia. They did a great job and the parts now look brand new, nice and shiny like they're supposed to be. They use some sort of baking powder blasting that takes away the resin and leaves the carbon fiber alone, and then refinish with the right kind of heat resisting resin. The white looking appearance is due to the clouding of the resin ob top of the carbon fiber. It happened to my side engine panels after just one spirited driving while the rest of my parts look like they faded over time with UV and heat in the engine bay. I have a feeling, the resin they used faded due to both heat and also time... Try the shop, they will make your CF parts brand new again for a couple of grand, which is 5-6 times cheaper than replacing them when out of warranty. It's quite a striking difference! Regular shops don't know how to refinish them so don't waste your time, I tried. I think Ferrari is sending most of the CF parts to be refinished by them now since it's way cheaper than replacing the parts. I think Ferrari was very irresponsible to not recall these parts knowing that they ALL fade! Talk about the mental distress that's caused by seeing these beautiful parts fade and the trouble and time wasted to replace them or repair them. That should have been a recall! Will
This is good news that you have found a reasonable cost solution. I believe it is naive to think that the Ferrari supplier used the "wrong" epoxy. I am sure they used the best solution at the time to their knowledge. Based on the cost of these panels it does not seem like they were cutting corners on material cost. The current solutions ay be better, but the inherent flaws in clear epoxy products exposed to UV and heat still exist in todays formulations. I have been making carbon fiber and kevlar based components since 1994 for personal motorcycle racing, odd projects, etc. The carbon, kevlar, or other underlying fabrics like fiberglass is not the issue as everyone may have guessed. Its the epoxy resin. There are thousands of Epoxy resins, so this is just a general statement about them in general. 1. Epoxy will be prematurely damaged by UV light. Its called "chalk-out". This is countered one of several ways. a. Put a top coat of paint on the part, like carbon fenders etc. The paint blocks the UV thus protecting the epoxy. If the epoxy discolors, it does not really matter. b. Put a top coat of clear UV coating, usually in a paint to protect it as in (a.) with the limitation that if the top coat, or underlying resin discolors, you will notice because the discoloration or hazing will be between the viewer and the carbon. c. Mix UV into the resin at mix time, or include it in the epoxy native. This works pretty good for some period of time. *I have never seen old resin that is exposed to a lot of direct UV that still looks acceptable. The technology is improving, but the sun will win, just like with regular automotive paint, where you are just concerned with the top few mils which is far easier to keep from clouding/discoloring. 2. Epoxy will be prematurely be damaged by heat, and/or heat cycles. This damage is usually not structural. It is not clear if a constant heat is better or worse, but for this case it is moot. The heat can cause discoloration, hazing and worse complete failure of structural components. For the carbon panels in the engine bay the risk is discoloration or hazing. For the intake plenum there could be a failure, but the plenum is really not a stressed part in the traditional sense. And it appears very thick, so it could last the life of the vehicle. Notes: -When I refer to "resin" I mean the resulting polymer from the resin+hardner thermal process. -Epoxy is just a chemical. -It is quite hard to see UV and heat damage on a dark grey painted aluminum panel. If that same panel were painted with just a clear coat as to expose the aluminum "look" you would eventually get clouding as well, but paint technology in regards to UV is a decade ahead of epoxy in my opinion. Suggestions: S1: A clear UV film on the rear engine bay glass will reduce the epoxy's exposure to UV. This is available at most automotive film shops. S2: Raise engine bay bonnet after driving to accelerate the engine bay cooling.
Now I understand why people leave their engine bay bonnet open after driving! The engine bay generates a lot of heat, would the UV film withstand all that heat? Will
