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Scottsdale auctions

Discussion in 'Vintage Ferrari Market' started by Randy, Jan 14, 2015.

  1. 330 4HL

    330 4HL Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    May 12, 2005
    835
    Vancouver
    Full Name:
    Rick Bradner
    Cheaper than a 4-headlight 330?
    If someone wants to pay $365K for a 4-headlight 330, give me their number!

    Where did you get that info from?
     
  2. Terra

    Terra Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 16, 2004
    1,909
  3. Daytonafan

    Daytonafan F1 Rookie

    Oct 18, 2003
    2,663
    Surrey, England
    Full Name:
    Matthew
    For these particular sales you also need to consider the recent FX volatility. Cars sold in USD are a lot more expensive to buyers whose base currency is GBP or EUR than they were back in August. Conversely the upcoming Paris sales could be very attractive to USD and CHF buyers.
     
  4. Andrewo

    Andrewo Formula Junior

    Dec 4, 2011
    349
    Palos Verdes, CA
    Full Name:
    Andrew
  5. absent

    absent F1 Veteran
    Lifetime Rossa

    Nov 2, 2003
    8,304
    illinois
    Full Name:
    mark k.
  6. Ferrari 308 Vetro

    Ferrari 308 Vetro F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Nov 12, 2012
    4,389
    Austria
    Thanks for posting the links
     
  7. peterp

    peterp F1 Veteran

    Aug 31, 2002
    6,006
    NJ
    Full Name:
    Peter
    #57 peterp, Jan 18, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2015
  8. 275gtb6c

    275gtb6c Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 30, 2006
    1,697
    europe
    Full Name:
    oscar
    Whoever says that there is a bubble blown.....look at the results. Yes perhaps the usually expected 20-30% increase (per month or so) has dropped to 0-10% but still firm prices. Especially the Ferrari's.
    Look what a F40, 288, 275 and 275 GTB4 did, all great results.
    Anyway, if you want a nice car I would go for the 360 special cars because a real 360 N-GT for some 120 USD is a steal.

    Nice these expensive cars but the insurance will raise and if you drive them it will be even more hard to do it with full pleasure.......

    Ciao
    Oscar
     
  9. BIRA

    BIRA Formula Junior

    Jun 15, 2007
    888
    hi Oscar,

    360N GT:find me one!

    apart from that, i think that RM did very well, in a week with major shift in currencies , and this has some psychological impact on big car owners who have other assets and may look at digesting the changes, selling 288GTO at 2,75musd and jaguar E type over 200,000 USD is actually very good and not a sign of market collapsing. i think they also achieved the highest auction price for a Maserati vignale spyder over 1.2musd!

    so while i dont really care which direction the market is going, except like every one i would love to have GTO back at 5musd,,at least i could dream to buy one! fact is bad cars dont sell at unrealistic reserve and good cars sell very well as there are still some people who want to have them.

    We still can expect auction houses that have experienced difficult times because of high reserve to push more clients to keep reasonable reserves as a no sale is a bad situation for auction houses, bad for repute and for costs that they have, whether the car sells or not.
     
  10. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 22, 2002
    12,009
    thought the results from the auctions was pretty healthy - some very solid numbers on superamerica, 288gto, CS, testarossa, lambos, boxter....def doesn't feel like a bubble popping....actually nice to see some cars not meet reserves - def not a feeling of people puking things....and that's after a week with global fx markets going nuts
     
  11. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Dec 6, 2002
    71,589
    Houston, Texas
    Full Name:
    Bubba
    Wow.

    Very strong numbers on the 288GTO, as well as F40

    That 250LM, there is a thread in vintage, still strong sale!!
     
  12. 275GTBSaran

    275GTBSaran Formula Junior

    Mar 5, 2012
    966
    Zurich, Switzerland
    Full Name:
    Le Monde Edmond
    Does anyone know what the 4cam sold for at Gooding? I know RM sold one at $3.6m. I think the results are quite mixed actually. Many 300SL Gullwing - very disappointing. Not able to sell a 275 GTB/ alloy? Not a good sign. I think there is no doubt - the market is softening. The LWB 250 Ferrari at $7m? Not very strong (even though the car was altered to covered headlights from open). A 400 SA barely fetching $4m? Not a good sign.

    Yes there were pockets of strength. F40. Porsche 959. These modern 1990 cars are doing well. Maybe the start of a shift in collecting habits? Will be posting my opinion soon on my blog.....

    E
     
  13. Ferrari 308 Vetro

    Ferrari 308 Vetro F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Nov 12, 2012
    4,389
    Austria
  14. Ferrari 308 Vetro

    Ferrari 308 Vetro F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Nov 12, 2012
    4,389
    Austria
    The BJ 360 GT (not N-GT) was very well bought, 120 is really nothing for a car like this. Not really á Big history, but a real car. Here in Europe we have some On offer for more than 200€
     
  15. mdw3

    mdw3 Karting

    Jan 2, 2005
    194
    Los Angeles, CA
    Full Name:
    Michael
    Gooding 4-cam unsold, no bona-fide bids over $2,800,000. Many of the bigger sales were single-bid against reserve including, I would guess, the RM 4-cam sale you reference.
     
  16. Terra

    Terra Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 16, 2004
    1,909
    I believe the high bid on the Gooding 4Cam was $2.9M.
     
  17. synchro

    synchro F1 Veteran

    Feb 14, 2005
    9,047
    CHNDLR
    Full Name:
    Scott
    The Dinos seemed flat at best ...

    Bonhams:
    1969 FERRARI DINO 246 GT SERIES L, Red/Black, Chassis 00542
    Est Range $450-500k
    https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/22205/lot/116/
    Sold for US$ 385,000 inc. premium

    1972 Ferrari Dino 246 GTS, Red/Black, Chassis 04870
    Est Range $350-450k
    https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/22205/lot/150/
    No Sale



    Gooding:

    1973 Ferrari Dino 246 GTS, Black/Black, Chassis 06286 Lot 8
    Est Range $400-475k
    1973 Ferrari Dino 246 GTS | Gooding & Company
    Sold for US $418k inc. premium

    1970 Ferrari Dino 246 GT, White/Black?, Chassis 00600 Lot 53
    Est Range $550-750k
    1970 Ferrari Dino 246 GT | Gooding & Company
    Sold for US $473k inc. premium

    1973 Ferrari Dino 246 GTS, Red/Black, Chassis 4786 Lot 144
    Est Range $400-475k
    1973 Ferrari Dino 246 GTS | Gooding & Company
    Sold for US $391k inc. premium

    1968 Ferrari Dino 206 GT Lot 107
    Estimate: $375,000 - $450,000
    Chassis: 00178
    1968 Ferrari Dino 206 GT | Gooding & Company
    Sold for US $418k inc. premium


    RM Auctions:
    1974 Ferrari Dino 246 GTS, Yellow/Black, Chassis 08040
    Est Range not provided
    1974 Ferrari Dino 246 GTS by Scaglietti | Arizona 2015 | RM AUCTIONS
    NO SALE at high bid of US$ 350k

    1970 Ferrari Dino 246 GT 'L-Series', Red/Tan, Chassis 01016
    Est Range not provided
    1970 Ferrari Dino 246 GT 'L-Series' by Scaglietti | Arizona 2015 | RM AUCTIONS
    NO SALE at high bid of US$ 460k

    Russo & Steele:
     
  18. jnk

    jnk Formula Junior

    Nov 12, 2010
    304
    Anyone see the 365 GTS for sale at RM. It was a no sale at 3.5 million. I was surprised as this is a pretty rare car with only 20 being made. In addition during my search of the various auction houses I have not come across one for sale in over 10 years.
     
  19. RJR89

    RJR89 Formula Junior

    May 14, 2006
    808
    I don't have a graph in front of me, but remove some of the softer Dinos and the numbers realized from RM and Gooding seemed like they were still on a steady climb. The estimates were a stretch. Lots of really cool cars (both Superamericas, 288, etc.). Congrats to the new owners.
     
  20. NYC123

    NYC123 Formula Junior

    Jul 15, 2006
    466
    too many people always trying to debate if the market going to the moon (like past 5 years for rare vintage f cars) or is there a "bubble about to burst". the reason there is never a conclusion to any of these debates on here is because it is neither. just turning into a fairly normal market. some things up a little some down a little some flat. turning into a normal market where it will be car specific. market has for sure changed from 7 months ago in terms of today's high is not necessarily tomorrow's lows for anything on 4 wheels. you don't have to jump on this first car you find worrying it will be 40% more when you find another example. however, this is just very normal for a market up this much it does not mean there needs to be any large tumble coming. sure if you are a dentist and you bought a car 15 seconds ago hoping to sell it for double what you paid in 2 months you might be unhappy but for most of us who have owned these cars for a while, traded in and out of them , and really enjoy them a more healthy market is a good thing.
    and as some other have noted here, for sure some trends in this recent auction in terms of 80's and 90's cars doing very well while some of the typical heavy hitting vintage cars not doing as well. 959, 288 gto doing well is a sign of people who grew up lusting after them can now afford them. superamerica and cs did really well
    many of the no sales like the yellow 73 rs were simply goofy high estimates. that car no sale at 1.05mln bid would make it the highest or real close to the highest rs touring to ever sell if it hammered there. nothing wrong with that, only a no sale because of a totally absurd estimate.
    in terms of all the 300sl that did not sell, well welcome to reality of trying to sell a non rare mass produced car , there are always 6+ at every auction.
    rarity, condition, documentation all these things will mean more in this more normal non crashing just non run away market going forward
     
  21. 330 4HL

    330 4HL Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    May 12, 2005
    835
    Vancouver
    Full Name:
    Rick Bradner
    God, that's astounding money for that car.

    The description seems pretty superficial as to condition, citing a "new exhaust system was installed, with the proper hangers and appropriate stickers" & " the Borrani wheels were fully restored", which sounds pretty minimal to me.
    Just looking at the photos, the rockers are clearly wrong, being painted black when they should be body colour and the jacking point holes have been filled in! I guess you carry a floor jack in case of flats...
    Also, it might just be the angle but in some of the photos the door looks to be either a slightly different hue or miss-aligned.
     
  22. rietveld33

    rietveld33 Rookie

    Dec 30, 2012
    6
    Los Angeles
    Full Name:
    mark haddawy
    The RS was a Light Weight not a touring, a year ago one sold for 1.4
     
  23. Caeruleus11

    Caeruleus11 F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jun 11, 2013
    9,199
    Was there something specific to this SuperAmerica to justify this price- just the very low miles (~900)?

    It seems the results are actually pretty strong.

    I agree, the market is maturing. Fortunately, I'm not a dentist or doctor of any kind. And I don't even play one on TV!
     
  24. NYC123

    NYC123 Formula Junior

    Jul 15, 2006
    466
    if its a light weight and not a touring than its worth more for sure but even as a light weight 1.05+ comm =1.15mln is still not bad as it would likely be in the top 4 highest priced examples ever sold...
     
  25. NYC123

    NYC123 Formula Junior

    Jul 15, 2006
    466
    the RS was actually an RSH which is really not a touring not a light weight.
     

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