360 SamCrac showing how easy the manual swap is…

1) how much is the kit?
2) who will do reflashing of the ECU to eliminate the F1 functions (for example, no ignition with the lid open)?
3) while it does not affect smog, does it still pass smog via the OBD2 port?

 

Great option for the 360/430 owners, for the cost of the kit can be what some have paid to sort out their F1 challenges.
I've attached a link to their website.
https://gatedconversion.com/

 

$12.5K for the kit
Free ECU reprogramming, and then you need to find an SD3 to de-program the instrument panel

Not a bad job if you DIY it.

 

That's a fair price, and the manufacturing looks to be head and shoulders above other non-OEM options.

 

I worked with George on some of these parts and I can vouch for him that these parts are top notch.

 

Based on the website, it seems the 360 version is really worked out, but the 430 version has a lot of disclaimers (i.e. no details on keeping the e-Diff other than blocking some plugs and electrical connection mods). The 430 also has a disclaimer about reprogramming where they will point you to someone. They should have directly partnered with a provider to have a bundled solution. I think they should work on those items to make the 430 a more OOTB solution like the 360 kit.

 

I can reflash the 360 ECUs for free with the kit purchase if they are shipped to me. Reflash changes the ECUs to be like a factory gated car, so no impact on smog or emissions.

Most of the smog tests are done via OBD2 to verify engine RPM at least, plus other information (VIN etc). So it really depends what the "other" is. California seems to be the most demanding in this respect. I understand that for newer cars they actually check that the image in ECU is exactly the same as installed by factory and they don't pass smog for tuned cars as a result. But 360 (and probably 430) is too old for them to have the right tools to check so we should be good. There are some cars registered in CA already being driven with this kit, so we will know for sure once the smog time comes.

Is there anyone with a manual conversion (after market or original Ferrari parts) who already passed smog in CA in 360 or 430? Would be interesting to know the results, the same logic should apply regardless of what parts are used.

BTW, meanwhile I've got the 360 instrument cluster reprogramming done as well. This week a first customer it trying it out (I ship/loan the tool, change is done over the OBD2, the tool is returned). No need to remove the cluster or send it anywhere or drive anywhere.

430 is slightly behind in programming, as mentioned. Big thanks to Robin for sharing instructions on how to retain e-diff functionality while removing F1 !!!!

 

It will be impossible to pass SMOG in CA on any 2005+ vehicle as the regulations changed and additional checks where added which enforce additional security such as Calibration Verification, etc. (and potentially other states as its progressively rolled out beyond CA) using the gated conversion software I developed that your using to convert these gated 360's firmware's.

That original beta software that I developed doesn't work on all firmware versions and can cause some weird running/rebooting issues on some cars (particularly later model years). At the time it wasn't fully developed/tested as exhaustively as I would have liked. I guess 'free' is free.. You get what you pay for!

I do have an updated version now which fixes all of these issues but its not 'free' sadly due to all the time and work required and is now locked to each vehicle so I can recoup some of the R&D costs. The 'free' version was pretty 'beta' was just that so I hope not too many of these converted cars are negatively impacted as a result of using this now being used in anger in a commercial product offering.

Anyway if any of these customers have issues they can always PM me for a paid solution. It won't be free but it will fix their issues and a side bonus is they can get an awesome tune done which I've developed specifically for gated cars.

Sorry George, I know you have been in touch a few weeks ago but I've lacked any free time in recent months with everything going on in my life...

 

They should update the website. This would add I think more confidence for a 430 owner to buy the kit. The current wording is concerning for someone who wants to do the conversion but not lose the ediff which is one of the great things about the 430.


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How does a conversion affect value of the car? Will it still be worth like an F1 car or closer to a gated factory
original car or in between?

 

Dumb question...for the swapped/converted cars, do you continue to replace it with the F1 clutch?

 

That was one of my questions too. I think if you need to do the clutch, you can either stay with the F1 clutch or go to a Non-f1 clutch, with no sensors, and a non-F1 slave bearing.

 

The clutch's pressure plate and friction plate are the same for F1 or gated manual, the only difference is the throw out bearing, particularly the seals.

F1 uses ATF so the seals in the TOB are suited for that.

Gated manuals use brake fluid to operate the TOB so the seals are different to suit that.

The throw out bearing itself is most likely the same, just the difference in seals but if you've already got the gearbox off to look or replace the worn out clutch disc, you might as well change out the TOB anyway; although some people don't believe in the "while you're already there" philosophy of maintenance.

 

The www.GatedConversion.com gated manual kit gives you two options:

1. All relevant gated manual parts are F1 fluid compatible (you don't need to remove the transmission and touch the clutch). This is the kit which Sam is showing.

2. All relevant parts are brake fluid compatible (you must remove the transmission and replace the throw out bearing with one which you provide and which has brake fluid compatible seals)

Same price, your choice.

 

If you choose #1 you can stay forever with it and keep on replacing the throw out bearing with F1 bearing during clutch jobs, or you can switch to brake fluid by replacing some parts when the time comes for the clutch replacement. One customer has actually just done that, using readily available standard Ferrari manual car parts.

 

I love that your are making this and the video that Sam is making.

1 question @2:45mins
How is it that your able to make one version full oem style shifting with all the metal click clack and a version that is all quite when shifting? How is that possible?

 

Thanks!

I simply compared how shifting in my old 1970s Ferrari is designed to a design in the modern gated Ferrari and made those two designs as options for the kit.

 

Wow - super good idea! Love the idea of being able to choose a shift style - super creative! Congrats on what you’ve achieved so far - exciting to watch!


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Do you see some market space for providing an improved shifting experience for factory gated cars? Now w 20 yrs of age… shifts are getting notchy.

sell a gated refresh kit….

 

Hills Engineering do the kit you require.

Its typically the alignment of the cables that first need to be checked followed by the (often) cracked bush in the gated mechanism. Once that's replaced flushing and replacing gearbox fluid can also help too. I recall some people recommended some Redline products.

 

I've thought about offering an upgrade from the factory gated manual but that's for a future. There are a few upgrades in the kit like aluminum not breaking plastic parts (but as Trevor says Hill has also been offering it), using stainless instead of rusting steel etc, but other than that I think Ferrari has done a pretty good job already.

Do we have data from high mileage factory manual cars on what (in addition to the above) is causing any shifting problems in the shifting mechanism? Obviously the actual transmission (primarily synchros) is also wearing off, engine coolant can mix with the transmission oil etc and a transmission rebuild may be needed to fix notchy problems.

 

I’ve noticed play in the bearings and bushings of the control cable ends at the trans. I’m in the process of replacing these w new oem parts. I’m noticing what I perceive as add’l slop in neutral to 1st and 1-2 shift.. just sitting at idle.

I can see the slop at the trans side.


I suspect sealed modern bearings at pivots points would be better. I’m perhaps optimistically targeting bmw e36 rifle precision and feel.

my car is an oem gated 2001 w 29k miles.

your cable to trans connections appear to be more precision and using better mat’ls than oem?

If I could shift one of your cars vs oem and it was closer to bmw… I bet you would sell to oem gated cars as an upgrade.

just a thought!