I came across this interesting discussion yesterday "When Hicham Dequiedt, driving on a highway between Vierzon and Riom in central France in his Renault Vel Satis this Sunday, was overtaking a truck, his car began accelerating to 120 mph on its own, apparently due to a defect in the cruise control system. Stomping on the brakes proved pointless and, having a magnetic card for a car key, he could not cut the ignition. After calling the police from his cell phone who then attempted to clear the streets of any danger to him, in what he described as the most fearful event of his life, he raced down the highway for another hour before finally managing to stop the car. Read about the incident here or, http://www.wftv.com/newsofthestrange/3783378/detail.html in more detail, in this article by the German 'Spiegel' http://www.spiegel.de/auto/aktuell/0,1518,321452,00.html The case is still under investigation. Are we putting too much trust in the increasing number of electronic systems that our lives depend upon?" Imagine you're in a F1 equipped car .. no clutch and the computer controlled cruise faults at same time as computer controlled shifting.. if it started with a card like the renault does how could you stop? Even if it wasn't cruise - something like the drive by wire throttles on a BMW 750... if the electronic transmission has "safety sensors" that won't shift to a lower gear if it might cause engine damage. If so, even if you put the selector down to the first gear, the computer would override the driver in order to protect the engine. Computer overriding the human for self-preservation. That could be interesting..... The car in this incident had an electronic card instead of a key (it remembers your preferred seat, stereo and mirror settings, among other things), a DVD player in the rear - and an electronic handbrake. This last advance dispenses with the familiar lever in the center console, engaging and disengaging when the engine is switched on and off. There's no danger of the Vel Satis running away as, initially, it will be sold only as an automatic, and firing up or shutting down the engine will require the gearlever to be left in Park. "The technology arsenal runs to adaptive cruise control, rain-sensing wipers, automatic headlamp illumination, a tyre-pressure monitoring system, ESP (Electronic Stability Programme), brake assist, a fuel cap integrated into the filler's lid and more airbags than you'd ever want to see deployed during a single crash. All this kit, Renault hopes, will encourage supreme peace of mind for driver and passenger alike" So you've got an electronic transmission, no manual shutdown, an electronic emergency brake, an "adaptive" cruise control system, and "assisted" electronic brakes. imagine all this with a car faster than a renault say an Enzo or even some nice twin turbo mercedes.. scary huh? I'll stick with a "normal" manual trans and a key thank you Chelle
Hah! I'm half inclined to sock away a whole bunch of carb'd 308s, 911SCs and a few old pickup trucks for when this entire planet is automated and were all just a bunch of sheep watching football games and soap operas on TV while big brother tries to drive our cars for us. If the world gets too electronically controlled, a hand held EMF device would be uhhh, "interesting".
I've still got a complete points ignition for my old car. You never know... Back to the article: I understand that the car probably wouldn't downshift, but what about neutral?
Well who's to say... in 20-30 years will the F1 equipped and other automated cars be relatively worthless and only static displays because of impossible to find/repair components? Socking away a bunch of 308's might be a real smart investment if the values on them were to skyrocket if the only way to actually own a Ferrari you can drive is new or pre automation.. Id say even as new as a 355 with non F1 should be able to be modified to work with aftermarket computers like Haltec or Motec... but as more systems become integrated there's going to reach a point that it's not worth it for an individual owner to try and engineer a fix. Chris, There was a lot of discussion about that on the other list I'm on and I seem to recall that something about the car wouldn't allow that... remember the guys with that NSX site ? On of them got a 355 with F1 and it wouldn't shift into neutral and no clutch pedal so no way to even roll the car....If I recall they had to drag it onto a flatbed to get it to the dealer.. Chelle
I remember when the W211 E55 AMG first came out, there were problems with the drive-by-wire system, and the car started rolling forward at stop lights and such. Was fixed with a software upgrade, but pretty worrying and potentially catastrophic for the driver when the fault occured.
Haha, I was wondering if that might happen. This guy wanted to go on a high speed joyride down the freeway, but not get arrested, so he just rang the police up beforehand and claimed his car was out of control! I thought it a bit strange when he said he finally managed to stop the car after pressing the brakes (duh), but the brakes had no effect earlier on in the incident.
you're a slashdotter too? As someone over there posted "on the other hand it is also standard operating procedure to deny liability first and then investigate." I would have been stunned if Renault came out immediatly taking the blame.. true the guy might be lying and I don't know that there is an assumption of innocence till proven guilty over there but the first thing they did after looking at the car was deny it was faulty and try to discredit the driver by announcing he had once been cited for drunk driving.. Renault has a motive for not finding anything..of course Renault is currently saying there is no sign of abnormal pad-wear but that wouldn't be the first time a corporation has attempted a cover-up - Perhaps even changed the pads when they inspected it he should have had it inspected by an independant third party The potential is still there as more systems are automated, and i'm not ready to just assume the guy went 50 miles past his exit to joyride. Had he made the emergency call after an officer saw him speeding and tried to pull him over I'd be more inclined to think he's just trying to get out of a ticket.. Chelle
Hmmm, now that you mention it Admiral, human error WAS largely behind some of those other mysterious malfuncitonings like Sudden Acceleration Syndrome. Interesting.
Unless the brakes were fly by wire this is by the laws of physics bulls hit. Brakes are always stronger than engines and if stomped on will always bring you to a stop. Try it some time.
Well.....as a 44 year old I can remember the time when you'd be stopped at a light and you'd jam your left foot on the brake pedal and the right foot on the gas pedal of the "big block whatever" you were driving, just as the red light went to green......load 'er up and let's race......... The car never went anywhere unless I took my foot off the brake. Even MB...whose brake systems are wire systems, has a backup mechanical default system in place. I am sure that Renault has equally as capable product liability lawyers.
uh? If you're going 100mph, and engine still pulling, I'm betting your brakes will fade and your pads melt before you're stopped! Apparently there have been other cases where the cruise control wouldn't stop, or engine shutting down and people being freaked out by the sudden lack of power steering-power brakes. Another reason to stay away from the Vel Satis
Chelle, I think you can safely cut those numbers in half given the number of proprietary systems in many modern vehicles.
