Ruben's threads merged: Currently he has left the building.

Possibly, but I'm thinking the incident at Monaco did it.

 

I think Rubens decided that he wanted a change before the 2005 season started. These contracts and agreements do not materialize overnight. He must have asked his manager, Fred Della Noce, to look for other alternativesa long while ago.

The BIGGER question is will he take people like Gabriele delli Colli and Rodi Basso?

Will there be a brain drain from the Scuderia of people who work closely with Rubens to BAR Honda? I certainly hope not!

 

LOL

In a team that is entirely centered around MS? I think not.

 

I would not be too sure to say that.

Rubens has certain key people like his race engineer, chief mechanic and electronics engineer, who have done quite a bit of work for the Scuderia. There some guys like Zacharia Arrigo (I butchered his name) who is another key engine guy (although I cannot remember if he is still with the team).

Even people like Stefano Domenicali, the current F1 director, is close to Rubens. There might not be any change in the public eye. Jean Todt, Ross Brawn etc. will stay. However, I am sure that Rubens may take some people with him and Massa might bring some new people too!

Rubens has been careful with his the technical team that works on his car and in no way are they team B. Even if the were team B, a Ferrari team B is much better than BAR team A.

 

I've been thinking about this RB going to BAR and things don't quite make sense.

Option 1.

Now lets see. Suppose if JB does manage to stay at BAR then I guess Sato will have to go (pity IMO, as he IS fast) and thus who will be number 1 in the team?

Well I think it has to be JB and thus RB has gone from being number 2 to the best driver in F1 to number 2 to the about 4th+ best driver in F1 ... thus RB has gone backwards.

Surely RB would not be happy about that.

Now if RB does get number 1, I just cannot see JB being happy about being pushed back and thus unhappy team.

BUT the biggest problem could be that both of them are YES man (on the track) and not aggressive enough and thus BAR are going to have 2 steerers that just go round and round (very) fast. Admittedly JB has shown some racy-ness but not often enough.

Option 2.

JB is sent packing to Williams and RB replaces him ... thus becomes number 1 with Sato number 2. A bit like DC and Klien at RBR.

Sato will kick RB's arse in sheer speed and make him look a complete toser ... maybe ending his career. After all Sato HAS embarrassed JB a few times, just needs to turn it in to race results.

And also I just never got the opinion that RB was the driving force or even consulted regarding car design, etc. ... thus with JB gone who will be the driver that's input is used?


I agree that RB needs to get out from under MS (after all his butt must be sore by now ), but if JB does not go ... hmmm ???
Pete

 

OK, something I don't get about F1 is this. Why does one driver have to be # and the other #2? Why can't you just get two really good drivers and let them go at it? Give them both the best you can, and let them decide #1 and #2 on the track each race.

Look (I hate to use this analogy here) at NASCAR.

Roush Racing: Mark martin, Greg Biffle, Matt Kenseth, Kurt busch, and Carl Edwards. They have all been competitive (Martin 2002 runner up, Kenseth 2003 champ, Busch 2004 champ, Biffle 2005 wins leader, Edwards rookie OT Year leader), and each ahve a chance to win every week. Mr. Roush doesn't say "OK, I'm gonna give Mark the best parts, you guys get the rest". he gives them ALL the best he can, and lets the individual teams race for it.

Hendrick motorsports: Jeff Gordon & Jimmie Johnson (they are the top 2 on the team). They race each other hard, and may the best man win. Those 2 were in 3rd and 4th in the final race last year, separeated by (IIRC) 2 points. Depending on what Busch did, whichever driver finished ahead could determine which driver won the championship. There were no "team orders" there. They were both racing their butts off to win a title.

So explain to me, why do you HAVE to have 1 driver "higher" than the other? Why not let them BOTH be #1's, and let them race like hell?

 

This comment shows you do not understand how ego driven race drivers are ... they have to think and believe they are the best, not equal. That attitude gives them that millisecond advantage.

Thus all real racing drivers are desperately trying to beat their team mate and get the team on their side.

Pete

 

There aren't set #1 drivers on each team. It's just one guy tends to be faster week in, week out. So, he starts to get favored. Excluding McLaren's current lineup, most teams tend to hire 1 racer and 1 steerer, thus creating the situation even though technically in F1 it doesn't exist (no team orders, etc. are allowed). Ferrari is so set in stone, Schumi helped rebuild a total mess of a team. But using BMW as an example, let's say Webber is currently 5th in the points standings and Heidfeld was 10th. When there is an opportunity (say Webber running 4th and Heidfeld 3rd) they might hold Heidfeld in the pits on a long stop so that Webber can score more points. Because that might bring him up to the 4th in the standings, and well the team would much rather have him move up to 4th in points because who cares about being 9th. Thus, Heidfeld would be well on his way to being the "#2" driver.

Excluding Schumi, there are essentially no real racers in F1 anymore. Raikonnen shows the traits on occasion though, which is why so many on here like him. Most tend to very much be steerers. A few, like Montoya and Webber (pains me to say that about MW), think they are real racers but just tend to hit a lot of stuff / spin. It'll be a shame when MS retires.

 

Here is an interesting one for you:

Option 3:
RB at BAR as #1 and ....drumrol....Heidfeld as #2.

No kidding: He has an option to go there and will realize it *IF* BMW does not pick him up.

Crazy season in full swing.

 

Quite frankly, I think the silence from Rubens is a little unnerving.

I wonder if he even has a contract all set up with BAR. This might be a case of him asking for a release from Ferrari and Ferrari playing their cards by calling upon Massa as soon as possible.

Everyone is talking about Sato being squeazed out. There is a situation where by JB manages to stay at BAR. The Honda bosses force BAR to keep Sato and Rubens is the one who is the one squeazed out.

Is the option 4!??!

 

Close but no cigar....

Ferrari confirms Massa for 2006

Schumacher happy for Massa

Boy, the guy helps him win how many world driving Championships and all he has to say is they shared a nice time?! I'm assuming the "beautiful” memories were he was standing on the top of the podium and RB was somewhere below.

 

Why no cigar?

I was talking about Heidfeld going to BAR. Has nothing to do with RB leaving Ferrari or Massa joining the Scuderia.

 

Yes and IMO quite valid.

This is definitely an interesting situation and lets be honest, RB's career is in the decline (he would have done something by now if he was going to) thus Imperial your option does make sense. I would NOT choose RB over JB or TS!!

Maybe RB will become the experienced BAR test driver? ... like Panis, etc.

Pete

 

I misinterpreted...

I see Heidfeld going with BMW. Then again I also thought RB would stay at Ferrari. It seems everything is as certain these days as a McLaren finishing a race.

 

The only reason why Takuma Sato would stay at BAR is because Takeo ***ui (Honda CEO) wants a home boy to sell more t-shirts and posters in Japan. There is no way Sato will ever come close to what Rubens has achieved in F1.

I think BAR have dug themselves into a little hole:
They want to keep JB at all costs. The Honda bosses at Tokyo want one seat reserved for home boy Sato. BAR only have two seats so if they do manage to keep JB then Rubens has no seat. Rubens probably has some written agreement or letter of intent from BAR. So BAR are legally bound to give him a race seat or to atleast pay him a settlement if they cannot.

The more time that passes the more worrying it is for Rubens! It was his choice to leave... so best of luck.

EITHER WAY, what matters is that in 2006 Ferrari has two sound and mature drivers with great potential. Massa will make a great partner to Michael. I think they complement each others styles and approach. 2006 is alredy shaping to be a good year.

EDIT: Takeo Fu - kui. Why the heck does his last name come out with ***?

 

Hmm, now you guys have me wondering.

I think the possibility of Rubens going to BAR as the "test driver" is quite real. I think he would be perfect for it. After all, isn't that basically what he's done for MS for the last 6 years? He would help out BAR in so may ways its rediculous, just by being the test driver. But where would that leave Davidson? Might he be up for a full time F1 seat? I think he's more than deserving.

But at the same time, theres a seat open at Minardi now.

Its going to be interesting. There's 20 seats available, and probably 25 or 27 that deserve to be there. That means some good drivers may be on the outside looking it.

Kinda too bad, I wish there were 30 cars like there was back in the early 90's. Then all these drivers would have a spot in the race.

 

Hmmm, I count less than 10 ...

Pete

 

Rennmaus pointed me towards a fairly serious German newspaper article in which they state that Nick has some official option to sign with BAR if his BMW deal falls through.

As far as Rubens goes: Maybe we'll see him in practice 1 on Fridays...

 

Rubens had a Ferrari drive contracted for next year so I doubt he would leave if he did not have a good lock on a competitive race seat at another team. I am pretty sure that RB left Ferrari of his own accord due to dissatisfaction. From Ferrari's standpoint, RB has always been more consistently productive than whatever Massa will achieve in his next few years.

 

I would not be too sure of Rubens situation. Rubens contract might have stated that he needs to ask for a release even before starting negotiating with another team. So he might have asked for a release just to start negotiating with BAR. In that case he has nothing concrete... and so no annoncement YET!

Massa will do just fine at Ferrari. When Rubens came to Ferrari he was in a similar career position like Massa. Massa has heart and passion. That is what matters. He was determined to race for Ferrari and he managed to get a race seat. Not many people can say they have accomplished that.

 

good point Pete. Lets see your list of should and should nots in F1.

Should be in F1

MS
KR
FA
JPM

Undecided if they should or should not

DC
NH
JB
RS
RB


Should not be in F1

Both Minardi Drivers
Both Jordan Drivers
Sato
JCF
JT
Klien
JV
MW
FM

 

Not many people can say that their manager is Jean Todt's son either........

Whatever is or is not happening, and we can only speculate, isn't it time to cut Rubens a bit of slack? He might not be the best driver in F1 but he has done a pretty good job as MS's number 2 and achieved rather more than some of those who have such high opinions of themselves. And remember him in the wet at the German GP a few years back?

From what I have read, his biggest problem is that he is a nice guy and probably lacks the ruthless singlemindedness needed to be at the very top.

 

Why not??? After all we have 2 more weeks without F1