News

Rough Idle, Loss power, Backfire

Discussion in 'Mondial' started by soucorp, Apr 18, 2012.

  1. mulo rampante

    mulo rampante Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    May 31, 2011
    997
    Terra Incognita
    Full Name:
    Charles
    No doubt any moisture in the wires could have caused havoc. Glad to hear it running like this... seeks less than mine at startup. BTW, that Nardi wheel is _so_ elegant! Very nice.
     
  2. adamae82

    adamae82 Karting

    Nov 22, 2011
    175
    Toronto, Ontario
    Full Name:
    Al Peralta
     
  3. trendsetterx

    trendsetterx Karting

    May 15, 2007
    69
    Deep south Texas
    Full Name:
    Raul Marquez
    Some ppl say the best thing to use is WD40 (water displacement formula 40) to keep moisture away from these components
     
  4. soucorp

    soucorp F1 Rookie

    Sep 20, 2011
    4,805
    Old Dominion
    Full Name:
    Mike
    Thanks guys, I should have known better but wanted to clean the dirty grime off the plugs, -should have just used a towel than washing it with water and soap. I think all is better now and should be better once I replace the O2 sensor and relay. stay tuned...
     
  5. PV Dirk

    PV Dirk F1 Veteran

    Jul 26, 2009
    5,401
    Ahwatukee, AZ
    When I did my service I found that one plug hole had at one time about 1.5 inches of water in it. Rust water residue was in the hole, the plug was rusty and the extender was rusty/crusty. Don't know how the water got in there but now when I wash the car I take an old towel and drape it over the engine to catch water entering into engine bay.

    It is exciting if your problem is solved. Doesn't take much water to cause an ugly running engine and not always easy to find exactly where it is.

    For me servicing is as fun as driving. Enjoy!
     
  6. soucorp

    soucorp F1 Rookie

    Sep 20, 2011
    4,805
    Old Dominion
    Full Name:
    Mike
    #56 soucorp, Apr 24, 2012
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2012
    I would agree with you there PV Dirk. I enjoy taking things apart, hopefully when I put them back together, there's no extras hanging around which has been known to happen ;)

    I did not see any water in the plug inlet, but did notice some oil residue that I had to clean up with a towel. Not sure how oil got in there, my guess is it came up thru the spark plugs but the leads were cleaned, the threads had some oil on them? Is this normal, I remember in college when I worked on my Honda it was like that as well.
     
  7. PV Dirk

    PV Dirk F1 Veteran

    Jul 26, 2009
    5,401
    Ahwatukee, AZ
    Valve cover gasket on that one hole might be leaking ever so slightly. Its a fun gasket to install. 3 pieces. One down the center for spark plugs plus each side. If you are going to check the valves no problem, you'll be replacing the gasket. If you aren't you might check the torque on the nuts. I think it about 6 ft/lb. Very light torque. Might be wrong it's been 2 years since I was in there.
     
  8. mulo rampante

    mulo rampante Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    May 31, 2011
    997
    Terra Incognita
    Full Name:
    Charles
    Amen, brother -- right you are. I look forward to it as much as driving, maybe more so.
     
  9. soucorp

    soucorp F1 Rookie

    Sep 20, 2011
    4,805
    Old Dominion
    Full Name:
    Mike
    #59 soucorp, Apr 24, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Today I got my O2 sensor, waiting for my protection relay to come in to install first before I install O2.
    I still have the valve adjustments to do, valve cover gaskets, Hill Engineering cam belt pullys, Timing belts, AC belt, alternator belt, water pump belt, thermostat, and more o-rings to replace, clutch slave cylinder, and fuel filter. And I still have to get a new/rebuilt water pump. Brake shoes coming soon. The belts will be done last after I get my engine running smoothly first ! Fun fun fun !
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  10. soucorp

    soucorp F1 Rookie

    Sep 20, 2011
    4,805
    Old Dominion
    Full Name:
    Mike
    #60 soucorp, Apr 24, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Hi all, need some advice on my 3.2 88 model:

    I have seen water pumps from $250 - $580 and some are exchange programs.
    Should I get a new pump, exchange for rebuilt, or get mine rebuilt locally?
    And how do I know if I have the small bearing vs big bearing model as some sellers ask?


    ref:
    REBUILT WITH EXCHANGE FERRARI WATER PUMP AND GASKET
    (EITHER SMALL BEARING OR BIG BEARING MODELS)
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  11. trendsetterx

    trendsetterx Karting

    May 15, 2007
    69
    Deep south Texas
    Full Name:
    Raul Marquez
    You can rebuilt the water pump yourself. Ricambi sales a rebuilt kit and it's not that deficult to do. If you plan to throw away that protection relay, let me know because I want it.
     
  12. PT 328

    PT 328 F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    May 1, 2005
    3,374
    CA
    Full Name:
    Dan
  13. godabitibi

    godabitibi F1 Veteran

    Jan 11, 2012
    5,999
    La Sarre, Quebec, Ca
    Full Name:
    Claude Laforest
    When I replaced my pump last year I was supposed to rebuild it. When I added up the cost of the parts it was more expensive then a new replacement pump from Superformance. My shaft was in need of replacing. So I ordered the new replacement (aftermarket) with a cast impeller(original ones were on B/O). When I installed it the pump outside casing ribs came in contact with the pulley and I had to trim them to fit the pulley. Other than that no problems.
     
  14. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    18,971
    Texas
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    By measuring the OD of the bearings -- see post #3 in this thread for pictures/info:

    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=359124

    (But, unless your car had some very weird previous history, you almost certainly have the larger bearing version based on when the change was introduced vs the model year of your car.)
     
  15. soucorp

    soucorp F1 Rookie

    Sep 20, 2011
    4,805
    Old Dominion
    Full Name:
    Mike
    #65 soucorp, Apr 25, 2012
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2012
    trendsetterx
    - Ricambi no longer carries the rebuilt kit due to too many variations in the pumps, at least for the 3.2.
    You can have my old protection relay once my new one is in and all is good...

    PT 328
    I will probably send it to these guys for rebuilt, thanks.
    Flying Dutchman: http://www.fdrbp.com/ btw, do you know how much they charge for a rebuild job?
    I fixed the bad link: http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=362611&highlight=water+pump+rebuild

    godabitibi
    .... When I added up the cost of the parts it was more expensive then a new replacement pump from Superformance.
    I'll weigh the cost of rebuilt vs new with the right specs, thanks.
     
  16. soucorp

    soucorp F1 Rookie

    Sep 20, 2011
    4,805
    Old Dominion
    Full Name:
    Mike
    #66 soucorp, Apr 25, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Thanks Steve, as usual, you are very informative and helpful. I will check to see which bearing I have, think its the larger one. Thanks.
    To quote what you wrote:
    The difference is that they increased the size of the water pump bearings from 35 mm OD to 42 mm OD as shown in the photo. The engine serial number is shown on the top of the block near cylinder #1 (the top line will be "F10..." -- this is the engine family number; the second line "*XXXXX*" is the engine serial number; but be warned that the parts information on the Ricambi site is for the euro version MondialQV/308QV only, and this bearing (and shaft and seal) change was done at different engine serial numbers for euro vs US versions -- and, per the Service Bulletin 17-3, it was done in M.Y 1983 on the US version QV so, if yours is M.Y. 1984 US QV, it should already have the 42 mm OD bearings) -- so measure the bearing OD to figure out what you've got now:
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  17. soucorp

    soucorp F1 Rookie

    Sep 20, 2011
    4,805
    Old Dominion
    Full Name:
    Mike
    #67 soucorp, Apr 25, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    My one spark Plug extender came in the mail today from Ricambi...
    This is a replacement for my broken one that I accidentally stepped on while changing my plugs. BTW, the extenders come in 2 sizes so make sure you order the correct length. 100mm and 107mm. My 3.2 uses the 107mm size so don't make the mistake of picking up the wrong ones.

    There is a trick to installing these, you really have to feel the bolt that's on top of the spark plug, press the extender down while feeling for the bolt to go into the hole.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  18. soucorp

    soucorp F1 Rookie

    Sep 20, 2011
    4,805
    Old Dominion
    Full Name:
    Mike
    #68 soucorp, May 5, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Today, I tackled installing my new Protection Relay.
    The relay on the Mondial is located on the right side rear trunk.
    Lift carpets, locate black lid and remove the 2 screws, lift out.

    The relay is the red big one with a 10amp fuse.
    I started the car after I install the new relay but I don't think it solve my idle problems.
    Started okay, but after 5-10 min, the car had rough idling, some back fire, so I moved on to the next item to replace, O2 sensor.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  19. soucorp

    soucorp F1 Rookie

    Sep 20, 2011
    4,805
    Old Dominion
    Full Name:
    Mike
    #69 soucorp, May 5, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I think my O2 sensor could be causing my rough idling problems.
    So got a Bosch oem replacement with same connectors and all.
    Had to figure out how I was going to take out the old O2 sensor but figured the best way was thru the right rear wheel well. Have not had a chance to start up the car, its dark now and have to wait until the morning.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  20. soucorp

    soucorp F1 Rookie

    Sep 20, 2011
    4,805
    Old Dominion
    Full Name:
    Mike
    #70 soucorp, May 5, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  21. soucorp

    soucorp F1 Rookie

    Sep 20, 2011
    4,805
    Old Dominion
    Full Name:
    Mike
    Hopefully the idling issues will be resolved tomorrow. I will also, install my new Clutch slave cylinder finally and bleed air out of the brake line. Belt replacements, and valve clearance, and new water pump will be my next project in a few months and that should conclude my DIY major service for this year! Just want to be back on the road as quickly as I can and enjoying the ride! :)
     
  22. PT 328

    PT 328 F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    May 1, 2005
    3,374
    CA
    Full Name:
    Dan
    Mike, I am sorry to read the replacement relay did not resolve your issue. Thanks for trying it first and dispelling my thought. I hope you find the O2 sensor to be the key.
     
  23. soucorp

    soucorp F1 Rookie

    Sep 20, 2011
    4,805
    Old Dominion
    Full Name:
    Mike
    I started her up this morning, same idling problems, so I am baffled.

    Crank sensor? Coils? It appears that the electrical is in and out, almost like a bad alternator or ground. See video for yourself and please let me know what else I can try?

    thank you.

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvtHZaHeO-s[/ame]
     
  24. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    18,971
    Texas
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    The corresponding change in the brightness of the "brake failure" warning light does seem suspicious (and seems to preceed events -- i.e., light is bright and engine at 800~1000 RPM, light goes dim and then RPM drops to ~500 RPM, light goes bright, and then RPM jumps back to ~1000 RPM, etc.) -- have you tried measuring the DC and AC voltage between the battery terminals when the engine is fluctuating between the two states?
     
  25. soucorp

    soucorp F1 Rookie

    Sep 20, 2011
    4,805
    Old Dominion
    Full Name:
    Mike
    #75 soucorp, May 6, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Hi Steve, no I have not tried that. I do have a multi-meter.
    Can you please provide steps on how to do that and what am I looking for in the measurements as expected? The car was starting to act up like this before I started replacing everything so I don't think its something I did wrong after the recent maintenance.

    The only other things that I can think of are oil that got into some wiring, see photos.
    thank you
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     

Share This Page