Ron Dennis Counters Alonso's Comments | Page 3 | FerrariChat

Ron Dennis Counters Alonso's Comments

Discussion in 'Other Racing' started by RP, Aug 3, 2008.

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  1. IanMac

    IanMac Formula 3

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    By the same token if they'd backed LH a bit more they'd have had the championship, but they didn't, they let their drivers race and neither of them won it. McLaren paid the price for having no "number 1" driver but that's how they want to run the team and it's their call. Personally I applaud them for it.
     
  2. Senna1994

    Senna1994 F1 World Champ
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    Ian, I applaud McLaren and Williams (in the past) for operating that way. However, the only reason I mention FA is the fact that he probably felt that as a defending 2WDC he would be a bit more favored to go for the championship and Lewis being a Rookie would have a learning year with many more potential championships to come. Just my 2 cents.
     
  3. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

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    +1.

    Yes the teams should be left to operate as they see fit, but it is still frustrating to watch :).
    Pete
     
  4. racerx3317

    racerx3317 F1 Veteran

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    +2 dead on, Tony. Although Steve might not agree.
     
  5. DeSoto

    DeSoto F1 Veteran

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    But I wonder: why they should have backed Alonso when Hamilton was ahead of him almost all the season?
     
  6. kraftwerk

    kraftwerk Two Time F1 World Champ

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    Luis, I understand all the reasoning behind why "He should have played 2nd fiddle to Alonso etc" but because he didn't, and RD let them race each other, is one of the main reasons I rate him so highly, and one which will make him a WDC.

    Lets face it, he isn't doing that bad last time I checked, is he. ...;)
     
  7. Senna3xWC

    Senna3xWC F1 Rookie

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    For all the complaints...isn't Ferrari letting both of its drivers race each other this season?
     
  8. IanMac

    IanMac Formula 3

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    I can understand that, Tony, but if the issue of status was so important to Alonso "probably feeling" he would be more favoured (despite McLaren's stated policy and previous history) just wasn't good enough. I think that was something he should have been absolutely clear about before he joined the team and he should have walked away if the deal he was offered wasn't to his satisfaction.
     
  9. Senna1994

    Senna1994 F1 World Champ
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    True, I think in his own mind, Alonso never figured LH would be so quick and so good so fast. On another note, it seems besides Senna, Ron Dennis's personality doesn't do as well with the Latin Drivers (Alonso, JPM).
     
  10. Gilles27

    Gilles27 F1 World Champ

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    Looks that way.
     
  11. IanMac

    IanMac Formula 3

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    In an interview, I think at the last race weekend, RD reckoned nearly all the teams allowed their drivers to race each other these days. Might be a bit different as we get down to the business end of the season, at least for the teams in contention!
     
  12. LightGuy

    LightGuy Three Time F1 World Champ
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    So he's not just slapping Mclaren in the face but his current ride. Clever.
    I dont see why other teams are not pounding down the door to get this gem.


    Many fail to remember at the START of last lear it was the "Alonso and that other guy" show.
    Only when LHs brilliance and racing luck put him as a contender that others saw the "inequity" in the team.
    I believe the real reason for the dislike offered to LH is that "he didn't pay his dues". Wah. IMO none of the current crop of groomed since pre-teen drivers has paid his dues.
    When was the last real self-made man won a WDC ? Mansell ?
     
  13. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

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    It's not about money, why people always think it is is beyond me, but "didn't pay his dues" by starting in a WDC competitive team. The ONLY other person recently to do that was JV and he had just won a CART championship when CART was almost equal.

    It's wrong for the sport because follows of F1 understandably think this F1 is real easy. Anybody can just jump in to a competitive car and win the WDC ... and the fact is that is CORRECT, but we want more drama than that ... so we create that drama by normally requiring new drivers to start in a lower team.

    This has 3 benefits:
    1. That lower team gets a bit of excitement and better sponsorship coverage/attention ... heck might help that lower team move up a few places. F1 definitely needs that.
    2. The racing is better ... ie: we are able to watch somebody demonstrate their skill and actually pass a few cars!
    3. The top teams save themselves some money by less cars being destroyed by over keen young drivers ... okay this does not happen as much as it used to.

    You stick any top racer from a F1 feeder series in a McLaren F1 ... and they would have done very similar to LH last year, any of them.
    Pete
     
  14. kraftwerk

    kraftwerk Two Time F1 World Champ

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    Pete, like it or not accept the way things change in F1, the idea is to win, and Mclaren invested alot of money in the guy, so why shouldn't they get a instant return, it could have gone horribly wrong, thats why FA was there, turned out he was as good, so why put a great talent in a back marker car just to please/prove folk what we now already know. I can see your point though. However I must add your statement that any top racer from a Mclaren feeder series could do what LH did is prue wrong.. what your actually saying is LH made it look easy, so you actually believe it is!!.
     
  15. gsjohnson

    gsjohnson Formula 3

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    +1
    Hami also benefited from Alonso's setup experience and I doubt that McLaren would have been where they were on the grid without it. RD's support of Hami cost the team the WDC.
     
  16. Senna3xWC

    Senna3xWC F1 Rookie

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    Is he still providing set-up info to Hamilton? Last time I checked, Hamilton was leading the WDC again.
     
  17. gsjohnson

    gsjohnson Formula 3

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    #67 gsjohnson, Aug 13, 2008
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2008
    It did take 4 to 5 races for McLaren to dial the car back in this year. If you remember, everyone wondered what was wrong with McLaren at the beginning of the season. It was widely publicized that McLaren missed Alonso's setup skills and that was the reason for McLaren's slow start into the season. And who's McLaren's test driver?

    No question that Alonso underestimated Hami's skill and ability to adapt to F1 as a first rate driver. It caught Alonso by surprise and when he went sniveling to RD that it was his setup skills that got the car where it was, it fell on deaf ears.
     
  18. Senna3xWC

    Senna3xWC F1 Rookie

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    Really?

    Who won the opening round?
     
  19. gsjohnson

    gsjohnson Formula 3

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    #69 gsjohnson, Aug 13, 2008
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2008
    Come on Ted, there were only 6 finishers in Australia and both Ferraris were not running at the end. Hardly a race that you could gauge where McLaren stood in terms of having Ferrari's measure. It wasn't until the rain race at Monaco (Race 6) that Hami won again. In that 5 race winless drought, Hami had no fast laps and no poles.

    Conversely, in 2007 Alonso and Hami had 6 poles and fast laps between them in the first 6 races and won the first 5 of 6 races. It is also widely known that fellow Spaniard and McLaren test driver Pedro De La Rosa had a very personal relationship with Alonso and they emailed each other on a daily basis transmitting information from setups to Spygate. Something Hami was not a part of.
     
  20. kraftwerk

    kraftwerk Two Time F1 World Champ

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    This has been discussed ad nauseam.
    RD's policy of letting team mate drivers race each other to the bitter end cost them the title, which by the way is in the FIA book, NO team orders, and it's as well LH or FA didn't win the WDC under the circumstances of spygate anyway.

    As regards LH using FA's car set up data, it doesn't hold any water with me, as this was for only half of the season, and if this was the case how do you account for it this year.

    Lewis's quick form was probably a surpise to everyone, he has proved this year it was no fluke, so why folk cannot accept it, and make excuses to the contrary is beyond me.
     
  21. gsjohnson

    gsjohnson Formula 3

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    #71 gsjohnson, Aug 13, 2008
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2008
    I'm not sure I can compete with your passion for your mate. Passion arguments lack foundation and facts. You seem to defend him even when others agree with you. Did you even read what I wrote? Whether it holds water with you or not, it is irrelavent. It's a fact that Alonso's setup skills and his due diligence to get the setup right has been documented in the emails De La Rosa and Alonso exchanged during the 2007 season. So tell us, why was Hami off of his 2007 pace for the first 5 races of this season? How many fast race laps does he have this year? I'll tell you...ZERO. Between Hami and Alonso, they had over 12 fast laps and poles in 2007. So, tell us, why was that? I have no dog in this fight, I am simply trying to relate the facts to the results. Hami is a tremedous talent. There is no question about that. But he is still gathering experience and his inexperience is what contributed to his throwing away of the WDC in 2007.
     
  22. kraftwerk

    kraftwerk Two Time F1 World Champ

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    If it was a fast lap contest you may have a point, last time I looked it wasn't, so what's that you said about irrelavent!!

    First off you think that the Mclaren started the 2007 season with a car built round emails, and you explain there pace for this apparent transfer of data.

    LH was in his rookie!!! year and he was a match for his 2 x WDC team mate, now for me even if Mclaren was fighting at the back or the front getting fastest laps etc, it is irrelavant to LH achievements of getting in a car driving on tracks new to him and being as equal to his experienced 2 x WDC team mate.

    As it turned out LH under dubious circumstances narrowly lost the title, and is now leading the WDC this year, back tracking with last year result's with inexperience is all well and good, but fact is he was there to contend that title is a feat in it's self, and why folk try to explain it away is beyond me, if you don't like the guy just say it.

    What part of my so called passion argument lacked facts, fast laps great.
     
  23. gsjohnson

    gsjohnson Formula 3

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    #73 gsjohnson, Aug 13, 2008
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2008
    It's complelety relavent in terms of car setup. Car setup=fast laps.
    Again, I cannot compete with your passion that translates to irrational thinking. You mischaracterized my statements. You are trying to trivialize De La Rosa'a and Alonso's relationship (Both are Spaniards). And I am willing to bet that you have idea of the content of their emails, yet you are willing to trivialize them with no knowledge of their content. Am I correct? Come on, you really can't see what I'm saying here? It's not a conspiracy against Hami.
     
  24. Senna3xWC

    Senna3xWC F1 Rookie

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    Here's a question for all of you:

    If McLaren threw away a WDC last season by allowing both their drivers to race, is Ferrari in danger of doing that this year?

    Both Ferrari drivers are allowed to race, should Ferrari be throwing its support behind one driver and if so, who?
     
  25. kraftwerk

    kraftwerk Two Time F1 World Champ

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    This is a pointless debate, as you assume I'am blinded by passion.
     

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