Rock's Automotive Restoration: LAWSUIT

Me too...highly recommend Rock's

 

+1 i have been going to Rock,s for 10years and never seen bad workmanship plus I don't judge by gossip,and so far there are no Facts in this Forum.

 

The installed base of these older exotics is not very big in the GTA, and I am simply glad that some shops exist and take on projects that are by nature unpredictable. I think one needs a lot of patience and a room for error attitude when getting these cars looked after. Of course, attitude on both parties is what gets you through a problem. Hard to fathom lawsuits to deal with this kind of stuff, if some crap work gets done, you pay more to get it done right after blowing off some steam. I don't know Rock but I do vicariously know he has a long standing reputation as a guy who loves these cars.

 

I have been out of the country, and continue to do so for another week, so just getting caught up on this thread.

My issue would be that, you being a doctor, would you want someone to do surgery on a patient who is not a licensed doctor? There is a reason trades are licensed, to ensure a minimum level of competence. I can live with many issues, ie 9 years timelines (shows patience), live with quality of work, live with having to redo it again. What I could not understand is someone professing to be a licensed trade and than finding out they are not. In hindsight it explains many things. We are dealing with Canada, not Mexico where the quality of the doctor is questionable.

If Rocco is licensed, and has been since I started to deal with him in 2006, all I am asking is that show it? Based on the multiple of people who have corresponded with me, the common theme is that there is no license in place for Rocco. I am open to the possibility Rocco is licensed, I (and fellow F owners) would just like proof.

Pure and simple......show the license. If a person says they are not licensed up front, and the customer continues with that person for the work, that is one thing. But to say a person is licensed, and than find out that on the balance of probability they are, infact not licensed, that is just wrong.

Your comments are a little disturbing given the level of training and education your profession requires.

 

Hello URAS,
With all due respect, we are talking about servicing a car, not a human body. Also, it's imperative that whenever deciding on having a service provided, consumers should do their due diligence. That means checking credentials, reputation and the like. Rocco's having or not having a license is a moot point. If he or any of his employees present you with a license, would you immediately be happy and not feel taken? Likely not.

 

Actually, I'd say, from my experience, mechanics are licensed and controlled in Canada to a much higher degree than doctors. A mechanic screws you over (and I'm not suggesting Rocco has done that to anyone, no matter how much they bleat), there are multiple avenues of recourse agains a shady shop and mechanic from complaints to the ministry responsible for licensing to civil courts.

Comparatively, there is next to no recourse if a doctor screws you over. Their malpractice insurance premiums go mostly for legal fees to avoid payout and their association is there to put a blanket around them to protect them from exposure to public scrutiny. There is no one advocating for the public against a bad or unscrupulous doctor. Occasionally, there will be a showcase article about a doctor censured, but that person has to very very bad before they get cast out of the sacred circle to be sacrificed.

As for the issue at hand, I have found at all times that Rocco and his guys put in the extra effort to ensure happy clients. They are a private enterprise and their great reputation is spread by word of mouth.

One of the Fchatters put me on to him for a PPI when I bought my Fcar a few years ago. Rocco patiently took me through the process and PPIed a couple of frogs before I found a princess to take home. I have no problem recommending Rock's Auto to anyone I meet.

 

is always wrong. I have noticed time after time how I was jumped on about the problems I had with shops. my fault. two on f chat really got after me. I noticed the same two jumped on this thread. so doc. I just had a Dr. kill my kidneys. should I just be quite? h no! when the shops took me for $500,000 should I be quite?

 

FWIW I do not know Rocco nor any parties in this thread.

As a former Parts&Service rep I can say the manufacturer was aiming for a 20% of technicians to be certified.
In my current status as a dealer body shop certification auditor, I work with 4 manufacturers jointly with I-Car and they are only aiming to get 10% or 2 bodies and build the facilities to a higher level.

I tend to agree with Fcat360, but would like to ask a question to complainers here; Who as asked his lawyer or doctor if he was TOP of his graduating class (I don't think so) most ask if the doctor can heal/cure or lawyer can successfully defend.

The major issue with many restoration shops , chrome shops, painters, engine shops and technicians I have dealt with is they know where their work starts but not always how much or how far jobs on vintage cars will go. On the other hand I have come across some who think they are going to pebble beach or expect a customer to spend 20k in a paint job or an engine overhaul.

 

Why?

 

No such requirements exist. The tech inspections are totally independent of any insurance the club has. Tech inspections are often performed for or by the FCA by individuals with no connection or experience in the car repair industry. They are defined as a service to the owners to supply another set of eyes to look for issues which are the owners responsibility to monitor.
Your region may have adopted a different level of scrutiny but it is not an FCA requirement.

 

It has been many decades since I used to race, so my personal knowledge will have been far outdated by now. What I am commenting on is with respect to the general category of who can fill out these forms. On looking through the Inspection Form, it clearly states column titled Mechanic, has a space for Mechanic Name, Mechanic Signature, and Shop. If the form did not require a mechanic, it would have just specified ‘Inspector’. In the USA there are a number of circuits who require a specific tech inspector certification license, and this license needs to be updated every two years with additional upgrading courses.
In the USA, I noticed many of the inspection forms advice ‘Mechanic’ and have a space for the mechanic’s registration/license number. However, in this instance, we are looking at Ontario only. The Inspection form uses the term ‘mechanic’. The term is not defined in the form. All vehicles in Ontario are governed by the HTA – Highway Traffic Act. The HTA outlines usage for road, off road, agricultural, essentially all types of vehicles. Under the HTA, there is Regulation 455/07 which deals with Races, Contests, Stunts; meaning it bans them outright. However, Paragraph 4 provides for an exception to races in certain situations for race courses, club/association events, etc. I have cut and pasted the relevant section below:
Exceptions
4. (1) Despite section 2, “race” and “contest” do not include,
(a) a rally, navigational rally or similar event that is conducted,
(i) under the supervision of the Canadian Association of Rally Sport,
(ii) under the supervision of a club or association approved in writing by the Ministry, or
(iii) with the written approval of the road authority or road authorities having jurisdiction over the highway or highways used;
(b) motor vehicle owners engaged in a tour, scenic drive, treasure hunt or other similar motoring event in which the participants drive responsibly and in a manner that indicates an overall intention to comply with the provisions of the Act; or
(c) an event held on a closed course with the written approval of the road authority having jurisdiction over the highway, including any event lawfully using any of the trademarks “CART”, “Formula One”, “Indy”, “IndyCar”, “IRL” or “NASCAR”. O. Reg. 455/07, s. 4 (1).
(2) Despite sections 2 and 3, “race”, “contest” and “stunt” do not include any activity required for the lawful operation of motor vehicles described in subsections 62 (15.1) or 128 (13) of the Act, or the lawful operation of an emergency vehicle as defined in subsection 144 (1) of the Act. O. Reg. 455/07, s. 4 (2).

No-where in the Regulation or the HTA, does this Act amend anything else. I.e., the criminal act, the laws of the land still apply to the people, the racers, and the organizers at the event. Otherwise, as an extreme example only for illustrative purposes, one could race through a parking lot, run through the course barriers and onto the vehicle race track and impact a race car/driver, and claim the law did not apply to them as it happened on a race course and it was private property and an Association event. As I read it, the HTA still applies with respect to inspections.
The HTA and the Vehicle Safety Act are the bible. For example, for a track car one may have converted to 5 point harness. Legally, that harness is illegal on the road as only the original manufacturer’s seatbelt system is the proper one (refer to Section 106(1) of the Motor Vehicle Safety Act (Canada)). I know first hand as the last time I spent 1.5 hours with a police officer and his sergeant explaining the 5 point harness in the Mustang and how it was not a determent. Short of this I would have needed a licensed mechanic and possibly an engineer to write me a letter. Just emphasizing that the HTA and its Regulations are the bible of any motorized vehicle in Ontario.
Regulation 601 deals with motor vehicle inspections. Paragraph 8 outlines the licensing requirement if you wish to do inspections, which is that you need to be
8. (1) It is a condition of the registration of a motor vehicle inspection mechanic, except a mechanic who only inspects trolley buses, that the mechanic hold a certificate of qualification, that is not suspended, in the trade of automotive service technician, truck and coach technician, motorcycle technician, truck-trailer service technician or auto body and collision damage repairer issued under the Ontario College of Trades and Apprenticeship Act, 2009. O. Reg. 437/12, s. 1 (1).

I am not going to go into local regional bylaws that outline requirements for races, but essentially they refer licensing back to HTA.

If the Inspection Form allowed for someone to complete the form that is not licensed, they could just as easily have written in ‘Inspector’, instead of ‘Mechanic’. The Inspection form does not define mechanic. Therefore the definition of mechanic needs to be referred back to the HTA, which refers to licensing under Ontario College of Trades and Apprenticeship Act, 2009. The Ontario College of Trades and Apprenticeship Act, 2009, itself outlines the licensing requirements of who can inspect brakes, tires, etc.

My racing days are over so no issue for me, and it is up to each driver to make their own decisions on who they wish to use. I am not saying my interpretation is correct either. But as a reasonable person, I had some issues with who can be a ‘mechanic’ to fill out the inspection form. If my life was at risk, which it would be on the track, I would want to go the extra distance of having a qualified person do the inspection, just as I would not want to drive with questionable tires.

 

Question, would anyone here hire an unlicensed electrician to do work on their house?

 

That's a hard one..Would you hire a first year licensed electrician over a none licenced one that has 30yrs experience?.Remember these guys only go to school two weeks a year the rest is on job learning.

 

Being a license technician does not make one a GOD. I used to run a shop. I had a 30 yo non-licensed tech who was better at diagnostic than guys with twice his experience. He was also a guy who managed to find a better/quicker way to do the repairs. He had the right tools and an amazing memory. He was an asset to the team.

 

I don't know about FCA, but I know the BMW Club of Canada's track days and driving instruction days do require a licensed mechanic to sign off on the required inspection.

 

Mark Twain once wrote, never let school get in the way of your education. There is a reason for it. A lot of trained mechanics are monkeys with no passion for the craft.

Do you know that years ago, one did not need a university degree to be a pharmacist. Yes, read one of your economics 101 books and you will find that the requirement is a way of job protectionism and securing higher pay limiting the supply of apothecaries. Licensing is a joke. Ask the guy who represented himself pro se. He's not a trained lawyer yet he claims he was successful in his litigation settlement. The irony of this is profound. Some licensed lawyers are crooks. So are some mechanics.

In fact, read about Enzo Ferrari. Was he trained and licensed by the province of Ontario? Yet he made one of the finest automobiles in the world. I'm not saying we should not use standards but why are PhD given to folks who never trained for it but were very successful in the field?

Rocco is one of those guys. He should get a phd given to him rather than have to deal with an opportunist trying to make easy money from a frivolous lawsuit. Rocco trained mechanics all over the city in their school programs. He's one of the most honest guys around. In fact, he started out like Enzo Ferrari himself racing cars.

Wisdom is what's needed here not someone's opinion based on a money grab lawsuit. My comments here are unsolicited. Just cause someone settled a lawsuit does not mean there is any validity to his claims and from a guy who's not even a trained licensed lawyer!

 

First thing you should learn is how to post once!

I totally agree that a piece of paper does not make a good tech or mechanic. But a licenced mechanic in Ontario had to go with a written test that is full of different skill questions and to succeed you need knowledge. Back when I did it when I moved to Toronto in 1991 the result in this test determined the certification you had. If you get an interprovincial card you have to be a real car guy to remember all the content. A joe blo with no passion would not pass.

A diploma from school is another story. Sometimes they have no real value in my opinion.

On another scale, it is very easy to train someone to do a specific job to acheive a result but with no knowledge at all. Shops like Rocco often have this type of guys. Cheap labour workers that are happy to work on a Ferrari for close to nothing supervised by one strong guy.

I don't know if it is the case at Rocco's shop but I wouldn't be surprised if it is. But I'm biaised cause I don't like Rocco

Just to clarify who I am to comment: I've been a mechanic teacher for 20 years now and also a life long car guy and Ferrari owner for 20 years too. Had my interprovincial certification when working at a well known resto shop in TO. Before that I had my A class Quebec certification since 1985.

 

I think you should read the thread about Vince(Uras) car that was restored with Rocco's supervision and see what was left under the fresh paint job. Not just a money lawsuit. Fact is there and CLEAR.

 

It is one thing for a nonlicensed individual, Ie Rocco, to advise you he is licensed and you as a customer decide whether you wish to have the work done or not. It is totally different when that same individual, Rocco, advises he is a licensed mechanic and I find out later he is not. I guess RossG you are okay with hiring unlicensed trades....let me know the next time you need dental work and I can refer you to my barber.

 

RossG, twain also said "if you tell the truth, you don't need to remember anything". Share that with Rocco and maybe he can stop giving out free oil changes for positive comments.

 

You are all starting to have too much fun, I think it's time I come out and joy the fun

You all are entitled to opinions, but not your own facts.

Fact is - I've been going to Rocco's since 2008, and I have never once seen this Vinti car there.

Other Rocco clients also know this for a fact.

Vinti himself took a grinder to this car himself and posted pictures of it everywhere here and NOT one picture is from Rocks shop. Then had it painted somewhere else. He was his own project manager. Rocco never painted this car ether.

Give it a rest guys, you are looking silly posting BS.

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/308-328-sponsored-yellow-compass-group/342118-please-help-me-find-chassis-21277-308-gtb.html
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