RM/Sotheby's Maranello Auction: anyone going? | Page 2 | FerrariChat

RM/Sotheby's Maranello Auction: anyone going?

Discussion in 'Vintage Ferrari Market' started by Jack-the-lad, May 14, 2007.

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  1. ArtS

    ArtS F1 Veteran
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Nov 11, 2003
    8,887
    Central NJ
    Doc,

    That 330 S1 interim was nice.

    Regards,

    Art S.
     
  2. tx246

    tx246 F1 Veteran
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Nov 4, 2003
    6,467
    Texas
    Full Name:
    Shawn
    i realise that the sale prices are posted in euros, but do they include the commission? typically, the results include commission, however, all of the results are in fairly regular increments more reflective of an auctioneers bid calling.
     
  3. John Vardanian

    John Vardanian F1 Rookie

    Jul 1, 2004
    3,043
    San Francisco Area
    Full Name:
    John Vardanian
    Both the four-cam and two-cam 275GTB's brought 605,000 Euros? Is this correct?

    john
     
  4. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ
    Sponsor

    May 23, 2006
    57,288
    Southern California
    Full Name:
    Joe Sackey
    .... and hard to beleive, especially considering how many cars posted as "sold" were in fact not sold at the previous event.

    Joe
    www.joesackey.com
     
  5. djaffrey

    djaffrey Formula Junior

    Apr 11, 2004
    530
    London, England
    Full Name:
    DJ
    Sorry to go off topic but I just visited your website Joe. Beautiful imagery.

    Darren.
     
  6. dretceterini

    dretceterini F1 Veteran

    Apr 28, 2004
    7,289
    Etceterini Land
    Full Name:
    Dr.Stuart Schaller
    Yes, but unfortunately, a Ferrari is beyond my means at the moment, other than something like a 400, which I have little interest in...
     
  7. Ed Niles

    Ed Niles Formula 3
    Honorary

    Sep 7, 2004
    2,493
    West Hills, CA
    Full Name:
    Edwin K. Niles
    Woohoo is right! I can remember when Lynn Diamant used to use 268AM as his smoky, clapped-out driver. They've added 3 zeros to what it was worth when I knew it, around 1961. Not a pretty car then or now, IMHO.
     
  8. lesliewales

    lesliewales Karting

    Jan 8, 2006
    98
    Hello there.
    I'm curious - how come the 246 GTS only made slightly more than the GT at this auction? Was the GT a better car condition wise or has the fixed head closed up in price on the targa top?

    Any answers would be appreciated.

    Cheers
    Les
     
  9. Jack-the-lad

    Jack-the-lad Six Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 22, 2004
    69,055
    Moot Pointe

    ...especially compared with the 330GTC and 365GTC at just 165,000 Euros. That seems pretty low, just about $200,000 I think.

    Jack
     
  10. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ
    Sponsor

    May 23, 2006
    57,288
    Southern California
    Full Name:
    Joe Sackey
    I try. Thank you.

    Joe
    www.joesackey.com
     
  11. lesliewales

    lesliewales Karting

    Jan 8, 2006
    98
    I want any comments of mine to be ignored, as per the last 3.
    Shall I use my cloak of invisibility for good or evil?

    Bye bye everybody. This is the last time I will endeavour to take part in this site. I'll just go polish my cars and talk to myself.

    Les
     
  12. Jack-the-lad

    Jack-the-lad Six Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 22, 2004
    69,055
    Moot Pointe
    Or it just might be possible that no one on this site has the answer to your questions right now (less than two hours after you asked them, by the way). Sheesh.
     
  13. dan360

    dan360 F1 Rookie

    Feb 18, 2003
    2,669
    Boston
    The prices on the RM website are including commission, but not including the VAT.

    On the cars, the VAT is only due on the commission, hence 10 going to 12%.

    On the automobilia, its 20% on the whole price including commission.

    In both cases if you are exporting, then you can get the VAT back - allegedly.

    So for example the Red GTO sold for 400K EUR, 440 inc commission the number on RM's site, 448 inc VAT or a shade over 600K for a car that would need work to be US legal. The car in fact had a nice posting on it indicating it could be made US legal "quite easily"

    It was fun to be there, but the Daytona was to me the stand out over priced car.

    I did pick up the Filippe Massa driving boots from his race winning drive last year in Brazil for 1000 EUR (before all the commission taxes etc) which was half the estimate. Given that someone paid more for a set of Raikkonen gloves that were just used in a practice session as opposed to a race win, I was quite pleasedto have something to bring home.

    I'd say it was well run it was certainly a big success from RM's perspective. I looked at a couple of cars and as you'd expect they pulled out the stops to get me access to the right information on the cars - including people from Ferrari. All the cars were Ferrari Classiche certified, and that was a centrepoint of the whole thing - majoring on the "buy with confidence - this car is the real deal".
     
  14. ferrarinyc

    ferrarinyc Karting

    Nov 5, 2005
    119
    NYC
    Full Name:
    Tony G
    This is an excellent thread with some great insights from those that were at the auction.
    I was wondering if any of you could chime in on the crowd of buyers?
    Do you think, from your conversations/observations that this was a F-car enthusiast crowd or full of "call in" type speculators buying through agents etc.?
    Wish I could have gone.
    Cheers!
     
  15. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary Owner

    Oct 23, 2002
    32,118
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    Jim Glickenhaus
    Thanks for explanation! Was the description "US Title" concerning the ability to re import bact to the US without owing US Customs duty?
     
  16. tx246

    tx246 F1 Veteran
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    Nov 4, 2003
    6,467
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    Shawn
    i have always found the vat return, unless done by the selling function, to be a scam. by the time you screw around with it at the airport and pay the commission charges, unless you have bought a crap load of stuff that you have the time to mess with, you get very little back. i could only imagine how it would have to work with such a large purchase, especially a car
     
  17. writerguy

    writerguy F1 Veteran

    Sep 30, 2003
    6,786
    NewRotic
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    Otto
    #42 writerguy, May 21, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Aaaww Tifosi Bear says you need a hug...
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  18. shill288

    shill288 Formula Junior

    Feb 24, 2005
    900
    West Coast
    Full Name:
    Steve Hill
    Jim,

    Having recently imported a vintage Ferrari that was in the US, then exported, and (after purchase) being re-imported by me, I had to pay the duty. Accoring to US Customs and Border Control, I would not have had to pay duty if: (1) I exported the car, and had the documents to prove it; or (2) I purchased the car and owned it for one year before importing the car into the US. I'm not sure why (2) gets around it, but that is why Chris at US Customs and Border Control at JKF told me.

    The other way, of course, is just to have the person that exported the car (RM?) re-import it for you. If I were RM, that is how I would have set it up to avoid US Customs Duty if they car came from the US for the Auction.

    Steve
     
  19. shill288

    shill288 Formula Junior

    Feb 24, 2005
    900
    West Coast
    Full Name:
    Steve Hill
    Oh, and it didn't take long for owners to figure out what happened with the Daytona Spyder at the Auction. I received three calls today on Daytona Spyders for sale in US. Each one was over $1M. Funny how one week ago, I still could find one for under $600K (private Seller that needed some work, the car, not the Seller).

    Steve
     
  20. Anteriore

    Anteriore Formula Junior

    Jan 4, 2004
    863
    Netherlands
    Full Name:
    Ramon
    Les,
    Ownership history is probably the answer. It was sold new to a member of the Lauda family:
    http://www.finecars.cc/en/detail/car/8584/index.html
     
  21. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary Owner

    Oct 23, 2002
    32,118
    Full Name:
    Jim Glickenhaus
    Steve

    Thanks. That makes sense but #2 is interesting. IMHO the test of Daytona's will be at Goodings with the Garrison car.

    Best
     
  22. ArtS

    ArtS F1 Veteran
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Nov 11, 2003
    8,887
    Central NJ
    Stu,

    Personally, I wouldn't dsiscount the 365 GT4 2+2 - or a 400 with a 5 speed. The Manual cars are quite nice!

    Alternately, find yourself a slightly rough 330 and have fun bringing it back.

    Regards,

    Art S.
     
  23. amenasce

    amenasce Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Oct 17, 2001
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    Joe Mansion
    The 250 SWB comp wasnt that much more expensive than the Lusso model ??
     
  24. ivo73

    ivo73 F1 Rookie
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    Mar 3, 2005
    3,472
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    Ivo Pucci
    #49 ivo73, May 22, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  25. dan360

    dan360 F1 Rookie

    Feb 18, 2003
    2,669
    Boston
    Bear in mind that the Comp car was in pieces and part way through the restoration and was a "pay 50% now the rest later" deal.

    I'd say it was still the much better buy, the Lusso is a car with no period history, versus an important car.

    There were bidders on most lots in the room, but the big cars seemed to be bought by phone bidders. The 512S went via a Sotheby's rep who was sat directly behind me on the phone to a client.

    The Testarossa went to a phone bidder also. There were bidders on both cars in the room as well.

    The 288 GTOs both went to bidders in the room.

    It seemed to me a crowd of enthusiasts, I certainly enjoyed my trip. I'd go again if this event is held again, its a great excuse to spend a few days at the Ferrari.

    One other anecdote, I saw the EVO editor owned Pagani in the parking lot, and when I sat down, imagine my surprise when I realized I was sat directly next to Harry from Evo! I had a very nice chat with him, they're real petrol heads and he had some nice stories to share about their various cars and readers that share cars with them for stories.
     

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