i realise that the sale prices are posted in euros, but do they include the commission? typically, the results include commission, however, all of the results are in fairly regular increments more reflective of an auctioneers bid calling.
.... and hard to beleive, especially considering how many cars posted as "sold" were in fact not sold at the previous event. Joe www.joesackey.com
Yes, but unfortunately, a Ferrari is beyond my means at the moment, other than something like a 400, which I have little interest in...
Woohoo is right! I can remember when Lynn Diamant used to use 268AM as his smoky, clapped-out driver. They've added 3 zeros to what it was worth when I knew it, around 1961. Not a pretty car then or now, IMHO.
Hello there. I'm curious - how come the 246 GTS only made slightly more than the GT at this auction? Was the GT a better car condition wise or has the fixed head closed up in price on the targa top? Any answers would be appreciated. Cheers Les
...especially compared with the 330GTC and 365GTC at just 165,000 Euros. That seems pretty low, just about $200,000 I think. Jack
I want any comments of mine to be ignored, as per the last 3. Shall I use my cloak of invisibility for good or evil? Bye bye everybody. This is the last time I will endeavour to take part in this site. I'll just go polish my cars and talk to myself. Les
Or it just might be possible that no one on this site has the answer to your questions right now (less than two hours after you asked them, by the way). Sheesh.
The prices on the RM website are including commission, but not including the VAT. On the cars, the VAT is only due on the commission, hence 10 going to 12%. On the automobilia, its 20% on the whole price including commission. In both cases if you are exporting, then you can get the VAT back - allegedly. So for example the Red GTO sold for 400K EUR, 440 inc commission the number on RM's site, 448 inc VAT or a shade over 600K for a car that would need work to be US legal. The car in fact had a nice posting on it indicating it could be made US legal "quite easily" It was fun to be there, but the Daytona was to me the stand out over priced car. I did pick up the Filippe Massa driving boots from his race winning drive last year in Brazil for 1000 EUR (before all the commission taxes etc) which was half the estimate. Given that someone paid more for a set of Raikkonen gloves that were just used in a practice session as opposed to a race win, I was quite pleasedto have something to bring home. I'd say it was well run it was certainly a big success from RM's perspective. I looked at a couple of cars and as you'd expect they pulled out the stops to get me access to the right information on the cars - including people from Ferrari. All the cars were Ferrari Classiche certified, and that was a centrepoint of the whole thing - majoring on the "buy with confidence - this car is the real deal".
This is an excellent thread with some great insights from those that were at the auction. I was wondering if any of you could chime in on the crowd of buyers? Do you think, from your conversations/observations that this was a F-car enthusiast crowd or full of "call in" type speculators buying through agents etc.? Wish I could have gone. Cheers!
Thanks for explanation! Was the description "US Title" concerning the ability to re import bact to the US without owing US Customs duty?
i have always found the vat return, unless done by the selling function, to be a scam. by the time you screw around with it at the airport and pay the commission charges, unless you have bought a crap load of stuff that you have the time to mess with, you get very little back. i could only imagine how it would have to work with such a large purchase, especially a car
Jim, Having recently imported a vintage Ferrari that was in the US, then exported, and (after purchase) being re-imported by me, I had to pay the duty. Accoring to US Customs and Border Control, I would not have had to pay duty if: (1) I exported the car, and had the documents to prove it; or (2) I purchased the car and owned it for one year before importing the car into the US. I'm not sure why (2) gets around it, but that is why Chris at US Customs and Border Control at JKF told me. The other way, of course, is just to have the person that exported the car (RM?) re-import it for you. If I were RM, that is how I would have set it up to avoid US Customs Duty if they car came from the US for the Auction. Steve
Oh, and it didn't take long for owners to figure out what happened with the Daytona Spyder at the Auction. I received three calls today on Daytona Spyders for sale in US. Each one was over $1M. Funny how one week ago, I still could find one for under $600K (private Seller that needed some work, the car, not the Seller). Steve
Les, Ownership history is probably the answer. It was sold new to a member of the Lauda family: http://www.finecars.cc/en/detail/car/8584/index.html
Steve Thanks. That makes sense but #2 is interesting. IMHO the test of Daytona's will be at Goodings with the Garrison car. Best
Stu, Personally, I wouldn't dsiscount the 365 GT4 2+2 - or a 400 with a 5 speed. The Manual cars are quite nice! Alternately, find yourself a slightly rough 330 and have fun bringing it back. Regards, Art S.
one pic...it was really a nice and interesting event ! a success ! ivo Image Unavailable, Please Login
Bear in mind that the Comp car was in pieces and part way through the restoration and was a "pay 50% now the rest later" deal. I'd say it was still the much better buy, the Lusso is a car with no period history, versus an important car. There were bidders on most lots in the room, but the big cars seemed to be bought by phone bidders. The 512S went via a Sotheby's rep who was sat directly behind me on the phone to a client. The Testarossa went to a phone bidder also. There were bidders on both cars in the room as well. The 288 GTOs both went to bidders in the room. It seemed to me a crowd of enthusiasts, I certainly enjoyed my trip. I'd go again if this event is held again, its a great excuse to spend a few days at the Ferrari. One other anecdote, I saw the EVO editor owned Pagani in the parking lot, and when I sat down, imagine my surprise when I realized I was sat directly next to Harry from Evo! I had a very nice chat with him, they're real petrol heads and he had some nice stories to share about their various cars and readers that share cars with them for stories.