Does anybody have pictures of the engine of s/n 0414MD and its engine number? Thanks in advance. Regards. Cris.- Image Unavailable, Please Login
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Does anybody knows why this car has been withdrawn just before the sale ? Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Probably has something to do with the bankruptcy of Kroymans Corporation. Kroymans is the owner of this car.
I was told Classiche had issues with the car. I think the car is not part of the Bankruptcy but owned by his Son. Others?
Thanks Etienne for the pics! Two more. Photos: Cris Bertschi. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
The (ex) Schermerhorn collection. By order : -lot 222, 250 GTE 2+2, # 3227GT, sold for 117 600 -lot 223, 500 Superfast, # 6043SF, sold for 728 000 -lot 224, 195 inter Ghia, # 0105S, not sold (190 000 #) -lot 225, 166 inter Touring, # 017S, sold for 263 200 -lot 226, 250GT Boano, # 0569GT, sold for 408 800 -lot 227, 365GTB/4, # 13653, sold for 212 800 -lot 228, 166 inter Stab. Farina, # 037S, withdrawn -lot 229, 212 inter Vignale, # 0287EU, sold for 347 200 Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
copywrite Bloomberg Ferraris Left Unsold After Record-Breaking Testa Rossa Auction 2009-05-21 23:00:01.5 GMT By Scott Reyburn May 22 (Bloomberg) -- Classic-car specialist RM Auctions is in negotiations to find buyers for several high-value speedsters that failed at its Ferrari Leggenda e Passione sale at Maranello, Italy, on May 17. The final lot, a 1957 Ferrari 250 Testa Rossa, sold to a telephone buyer for 9 million euros ($12.2 million) with fees, a record for any car offered at auction. It had been expected to fetch up to 12 million euros, RM Auctions said before the sale at the Italian carmakers factory near Modena. Several other substantially estimated lots failed on the day. Buyers and sellers are more hesitant at car auctions than they were a year ago because of the economic slump. Success rates at some classic-car sales remain relatively high, as more lots go unsold in other parts of the auction market. A Ferrari 330 P4 that came third in the 1967 Le Mans 24- hour race and was subsequently converted for daytime CanAm racing was unsold at a bid of 7.25 million euros. It had been expected to fetch 8 million euros. A 1962 Ferrari 250 GT California Spyder (SWB), estimated to fetch at least 4.3 million euros, was also a casualty. Both cars had U.S.-based sellers. Quite a few of the American vendors had too-high reserves, John Collins, director of the U.K.-based Ferrari dealers Talacrest Limited, said. Because of fluctuations in the exchange rate, its now more expensive for Europeans to buy cars from America. Over the last 12 months, the euro and the pound have respectively lost 12 percent and 20 percent of their value against the U.S. dollar. Mosss Maserati Among three Maseratis included in the sale, the 250F racing car in which Stirling Moss won the 1956 Monaco Grand Prix failed against a low estimate of 1.7 million euros. Single-seat racers are always difficult to sell, Simon Kidston, a Geneva-based classic-car adviser, said in a telephone interview. The recovery hasnt started in earnest. Sellers need to adjust their expectations. The 2009 auction, which was staged in association with Sothebys, raised 21.2 million euros, said RM. A total of 75 percent of the cars sold, and 95 percent of the memorabilia, Kerrey Kerr-Enskat, RM Auctions director of public relations, said in an e-mail. The sale last year took 29 million euros. In the current environment, I thought the sale was going to be terrible, Collins said in a telephone interview. It did far better than I expected. He was in negotiations with RM to buy two cars, both priced in seven figures, that failed to sell at auction, Collins said. Coburns Spyder At last Mays sale at Maranello, U.K. television and radio host Chris Evans paid 7 million euros (then $10.9 million) with fees for a black 1961 Ferrari 250 GT SWB California Spyder. The price was then an auction record. The Ferrari had formerly been owned by the movie actor James Coburn. Higher prices have been achieved for classic cars through privately negotiated sales. Within the last eight months, two 1960s Ford GTO racers have sold for $20 million each, said dealers. In January, I offered a collector $22 million for a GTO and was turned down, Collins said. He wanted $30 million. Another example of the 170 mph Testa Rossa was sold privately for $15 million in 2007, Kidston said. The most desirable models competed in the Le Mans 24-hour endurance race, he said. The Maranello open-top Testa Rossa didnt have a Le Mans history, said RM. Among the other successes at the Italian auction were a 1959 Ferrari 250GT California (LWB) at a price of 2.1 million euros. A 1964 Ferrari 500 Superfast, the most expensive production car of its time, sold for 715,000 euros against a high estimate of 500,000 euros. Beautiful cars like these appeal to new younger buyers, Collins said. They go for looks. The market is much softer for competition cars. Ten to 15 years ago, they were hot to sell. (Scott Reyburn writes about the art market for Bloomberg News. Opinions expressed are his own.) For Related News and Information: Top Arts and Lifestyle Stories: MUSE <GO>. Sothebys auctions BID US <Equity> TCNI AUCTION <GO>. London art auction news search: STNI LONDONART <GO>. Art reviews: TNI ART REVIEWS <GO>. --Editors: Mark Beech, Richard Vines.
For those who may be interested I will be on Bloomberg TV on Tuesday at about 5pm NY time talking about this auction.
Jim, PLs make sure that you have a picture of the "Ford" GTO that sold for 20+ mio according to BBG, im sure all viewres will be amazed at that Barn find... ;-)
Quite a few years ago, Road & Track, in an article on the Madison Avenue Sports Car Driving and Chowder Society (I've probably butchered the name), included a sample from the club's tongue-in-cheek newsletter: a classified ad read: "Will trade Pontiac GTO for Ferrari Chieftain." Now, a FORD GTO, that's a completely different animal! I'd expect the owner would trade for no less than a Ferrari Thunderbird! Fred
Jim, so what's your problem. As I have suggested if the car is converted by Classiche back to its original P4 of course it's not then an original P4 but a factory rebuild/restoration to the original and the whole world will know it. The CanAM body and parts can be retained as a movable display and shown as desired by the owner.This in it's self would be unique and would draw geast attention at any event where both were displayed together. Just think if 0808TR was displayed with each of its bodies all together in one place. I'll bet you would give it some real time. just one man's opinion tongascrew
Automobile Quarterly Vol 1 #2 Meet The Chowderheads by Henry Austin Clark Jr. Madison Avenue Sports Car Driving and Chowder Society. BTW Clam chowder is white not red
The engine currently in 0858 is not a P4 engine, it is a 350 Can Am engine STAMPED as a 350 Can Am engine not a P4 engine, 0858's chassis was modified in period by Ferrari to a 350 Can Am chassis which is different than a P4 chassis, and many other modifications were made in period by Ferrari that make this a 350 Can Am not a P 4. You think having Ferrari build a new 4 liter P4 engine today, cutting out their original 350 Can Am chassis modifications, building a new Replica P4 body and putting it on this newly modified chassis which no longer had it's original Ferrari 350 Can Am modifications would be a good thing? You think the owner of the Breadvan should strip off it's current body, destroy it's period chassis modifications and mount a new replica SWB body? How about the owner of the Series II 250 GTO that won the 12 Hours of Sebring? Think he should remove the original Series II body that was on the car when it got the Checker and replace it with a "Prettier" Series I body? Once again I think preserving history is a good thing and destroying it simply because you think something is prettier is a bit sad. If you owned the Mona Lisa you could have someone repaint her smile to something you liked better. I wouldn't.
I like your point of view, but you are comparing apples and oranges. The Drogo Breadvan modifications were not done at the factory. If you are a true hardcore patina loving Ferrari historian not swayed by the cars unique looks you would want it converted back to a SWB, wich I think would be a mistake. I think most collectors of all things, even non Ferrari collectibles do prefer them to be as original. How many important racing Ferrari's have been converted back to original after being rebodied? I would say almost all, and the 350 CANAM I suspect will have the same happen sooner or later. It still is a P4 modified to a 350 CANAM. Tom Tanner/Scale Designs/Ferrari Expo 2010
You can make a reproduction of what is was originally but you can't make it original again. When does restoration become reproduction? Case in point. 0858's current engine. 4.2 liters not 4 liters. Stamped as Typo 350 Can Am. IMO sleeving it back to 4 Liters and eradicating it's original stampings and re stamping it as Tipo P4 would not make it original and would cross the line from restoring to recreating. 0858 is a Wonderful, Very original 350 Can Am. It's not as valuable as an original P4. If my bid had been accepted I would have kept her as she is. I realize many wouldn't and that that's fine. In the end everyone makes themselves happy.
Leonardo painted and repainted the Mona Lisa over the many years he kept possession of it. Would anyone suggest that it be returned to a prior iteration?
Thats very true, but he never really finished it until the end. Ferrari did finish the 350 Can Am as a P4 and raced it. I wish Jim had won the car. He atleast understands the importance of the 350 Can Am as is. Im not so sure a rebodied P4 version of the 350 Can Am would sell for less than it is now. Remember alot of the bidding is done by the heart, not the brain. The look of the P4 would appeal to some more than the 350 Can Am. Tom Tanner/Scale Designs/Ferrari Expo 2010
Tom, 0858 is original. It's the way the car originally left factory/Scuderia- in the same way that (as Jim indicates) all the Series I GTO's that the factory converted to Series II (and there are more cars to add to this list) are original. I think the fact that they remain in their original, second body by the factory to this day is a good template for what a future owner of 0858 may decide. At least I hope. With respect to the Breadvan, it's wonderful that it retains its period-replacement (non-factory) Drogo body to this day. I am glad that its successive owners have had the perspective to appreciate it for what it is. In the old days, before the run-up in values, you could evoke the following argument without sounding elitist/classist/capitalist,... what have you; If you want an SWB, buy an SWB. If you want the Breadvan, buy the Breadvan. If you want a P4, buy 0856. If you want a 350 Can Am, buy 0858 (or 0860). Etc., etc. Money has (as it always does) changed everything. If it means cars saved, IMO, that's a good thing. If it means people go nuts putting all kinds of many decades later (in several cases)- half-assed or ill-proportioned replica bodies on, etc. WHILE at the same time discarding or setting aside the 'period' metal (fiberglass in some cases, Paul S.) and history... IMO, we all lose in that case. One need look no further than 8C 2.3 Alfas to see how muddied things can become, quickly. Not everyone has the foresight and good taste to be an effective steward and custodian for something special like a Viotti-bodied 8C 2.3 coupe. I'm glad Arturo Keller does. Best, Dave
Well said. Dont even get me started on 2.3's. The worst case is #2211053!! Brian Brunkhorst woudn't have sold it if he had know. The Viotti body is also wonderful. Someday the bodies will re-join their original chassis. Tom Tanner/Scale Designs/Ferrari Expo 2010