RIP Dan Wheldon -- Indycar Season Finale in Vegas | Page 16 | FerrariChat

RIP Dan Wheldon -- Indycar Season Finale in Vegas

Discussion in 'Other Racing' started by GuyIncognito, Oct 16, 2011.

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  1. RP

    RP F1 World Champ

    Feb 9, 2005
    17,667
    Bocahuahua, Florxico
    Full Name:
    Tone Def
    There is no moral high ground. There is no "true to its roots" argument, we would still be racing front engined cars with wooden spoked wheels if that were the case. Your argument makes no sense. Your position is not logical. Of course you can not "mitigate ALL risk" but you can make further changes that minimize the potential of harm. Whatever advancement is necessary to minimize even further the possibility of injury or death to the participants is what makes sense. Apparently you have not witnessed the constant changes to "open wheeled racing" in the USA over the last 60 years. Enclosing the wheels, even canopies, do not come close to the changes that have happened since the 1950s.

    This argument about changing the basis opened wheeled racing is really ridiculous. It has been changing for the last 50-60 years, sorry you have not been around to see this.

    Your point has no end, it has no real beginning. I can not understand how anyone can suggest that status quo is OK when lives are potentially at stake. Opened wheel racing in the USA has been in a state of change for a long time. This ridiculous romanticism with the accepted danger of the sport is really silly.

    Please, using the argument of being "true to its roots" does not work as it is not valid.

    Changes are inevitable. If you do not understand this, sorry, but you are way wrong. It has to change. If not, another Dan Wheldon and the cries of years past to make auto racing illegal will resurrect. Probably none of you remember that do you?
     
  2. RP

    RP F1 World Champ

    Feb 9, 2005
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    Tone Def
    This is a silly argument, of course racing is dangerous. Is that a reason not to maximize the driver's safety? The point of maintaining status quo for the sake of romanticism is ridiculous. The fact that MA was in an enclosed car is not relevant if that car was not prepared with the driver in mind. Take a look at P 4/5 Competition, the driver's safety matters.

    Not the same with the car that MA was driving.

    You need to come up with a better argument as to why nothing should change for driver's safety. So far you and Alfas have not stated anything valid.

    Change is inevitable.
     
  3. alfas

    alfas Formula Junior

    Sep 17, 2009
    639
    chicago
    #378 alfas, Oct 22, 2011
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2011
    Condescend much... No one is holding onto anything romantic and I've been a fan long enough to understand that the cars and the competition have evolved with technology on both the go faster and safety sides of the equation.

    You don't know what I've been around for so you can cut that high school debate tactic out of the repertoire. You put fenders and a canopy on "open wheel" cars and "open wheel" racing is over. Enjoy your nascar on sunday because that's all the f-car crowd is going to have left. Maybe they'll produce a 3 box sedan that they can go nascar racing with to appease the racing roots of the legend and keep the race sunday/sell monday wheels rolling.

    just so you don't find the need to point out the obvious but yes, I know this is a bit of an overstatement to illustrate a point.

    No one said status quo was OK, if they did there'd not be the cars they are racing today. What's ridiculous in this exchange is your debate. On one hand you say you don't support or accept the risk that indycars represent and they need fenders and canopies to move forward yet you conveniently neglect comment on ALL of the other forms of open wheel racing there is. F1 is somehow less risky than indycars, ALMS, scca open wheel classes?

    You damn indycar and everyone else gets a pass?

    Oh and I almost forgot... people die racing tin tops as well.

    Your thoughts on that?

    what's wrong with wanting single seat formula style cars to maintain a few of their cues moving forward?

    What's not understood in this debate is the fact that risk in this sport(and many others) is inherent and short of remote drone racing with the drivers in a bunker while the cars are on track lives will be at risk.

    I've got it, IZOD out and in with INDYCAR by REAL STEEL RACING...

    If Earnhardt's death death didn't resurrect the make racing illegal debate, I'll guarantee the passing of one Dan Wheldon isn't.

    You fail to acknowledge the fact open car & open wheel racing has been around for 100yrs +/- a few with it enjoying the lowest death count in it's history in the recent decades.

    If this were the 60's and 70's where multiple driver's were dying per season your arguments might have more to stand on. As this pundit you seem to be regarding this "issue" were you this vocal then as you are now since you seem to be the only one that has seen/lived it all as you assert and pity us for not?

    Lives are at stake when riding a bus, airbags save lives when used with restraints, does everyone on a bus get them for their commute? Parachutes can keep planes full of people from hitting the ground hard, planes crash occasionally, should ALL planes get chutes. Trains hit cars on the tracks, should cars be built to survive a hit from a freight train. Europe adopted for the foot dependant pedestrian impact regs, do you really think you've got a shot at a good outcome if you're smacked by a 5k lb benz/bm/audi coming at you with any head of steam behind it...

    Are we going to stop flight, trains, driving, walking because they can kill you???
     
  4. alfas

    alfas Formula Junior

    Sep 17, 2009
    639
    chicago
    So that's a professional engineering based opinion or just armchair QB from seeing it all like you obviously have?

    Any car on any track can find a set of circumstances that will lead it to fail in a manner that will cause harm/death to any occupants... to think otherwise is foolish.
     
  5. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 28, 2003
    75,396
    Texas!
    +1

    Dale
     
  6. 2000YELLOW360

    2000YELLOW360 F1 World Champ

    Jun 5, 2001
    19,800
    Full Name:
    Art
    Of course you try to make it safer. The end result is a video game with no risk. If you are going to race getting hurt or dead happens. When it does it's time to pay our respects not to do a snivel.

    Art
     
  7. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 28, 2003
    75,396
    Texas!
    If bloodlust is one of reasons why people watch open wheel racing, it is ethical to watch?

    Dale
     
  8. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Jan 11, 2008
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    That's way overstating things.
    I don't think anyone outside of the mentally ill watch any form of Motorsport out of bloodlust.
    Some nonfans may tune in hoping to see a big crash but not to see anyone hurt.

    We're just revisiting the old argument of what the level of safety should be. There is no correct answer. Periodically the sport readjusts to suit the prevailing mood and technology.
    A healthy and necessary discussion.
     
  9. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Oct 3, 2002
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    +1

    I don't see how holding on to one of the core elements of the sport can be misconstrued as bloodlust.

    It's like telling a free climber he needs to use a rope going forward: while it will make the sport a lot safer it also is no longer the same sport
     
  10. azfast1

    azfast1 Karting

    Jan 10, 2004
    208
    #385 azfast1, Oct 23, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  11. 2000YELLOW360

    2000YELLOW360 F1 World Champ

    Jun 5, 2001
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    Full Name:
    Art
    Dale:

    Let me explain this for you:

    I still chat with e guys I raced against, we formed a very strong bond. The reason is simple, in order to win you had to run the risk you'd be hurt or worse. There are a lot of bulls1t types who talk a good game. I know those guys put my life in their hands and and so did they. Tell me about bonding with video games.....

    Go take a look at Facebook southern california retired motorcycle road racers. Bwe're all there.

    Art
     
  12. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 28, 2003
    75,396
    Texas!
    Sorry, speaking from a sample size of one, I don't buy it. If racing can do X that has a greater than 50% chance of saving somebodies life, it should do it.

    I guess it is just me. All these years, I thought the thrill of racing was exactly that. Now I find that I'm wrong. Now I find that the thrill of racing isn't enough. Now I find that real racing fans watch because there is the chance that somebody might die.

    Sorry, if that's the playing field, I'm out.

    Dale

    PS I don't do Facebook. I ain't never gonna do Facebook. Too old.
     
  13. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Jan 11, 2008
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    David
    Real racing fans watch because there might be a crash?
    Where do you get that?
    Crashes are anathama to anyone who follows the sport.
    Injuries and worse are anathama to all.
     
  14. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Apr 28, 2003
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    Texas!
    Then why do some of you insist that the top, and only the top, of a driver's head stick out?

    Dale
     
  15. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
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    That doesn't answer my question. But I'll try and answer yours.

    I don't get the connection you draw but for me an open cockpit allows a better view of the driver at work and so a better appreciation of his skills.
     
  16. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Apr 28, 2003
    75,396
    Texas!
    So it doesn't bother you that the driver has a significantly higher chance of dying? All just to give you a better view?

    Dale
     
  17. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Jan 11, 2008
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    That's quite the unfair characterization.

    As do all fans you have the right to support whatever sports you choose.
    To denigrate other fans in such fashion doesn't help your argument.
     
  18. texasmr2

    texasmr2 Two Time F1 World Champ
    BANNED

    Oct 22, 2007
    22,232
    Houston
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    Gregg
    Good times they were and thanks for the pics.
     
  19. Darkhorse575

    Darkhorse575 Formula Junior

    Mar 20, 2005
    634
    Pasadena, CA
    Full Name:
    DJ
    LOL!
    Pimp Luyendyk and some HO-rrendous looking Hos. I must say that Dan had cute legs.
     
  20. wang

    wang Formula 3

    Feb 23, 2004
    1,998
    Brunei
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    H. Wang
    Didn't notice until u mentioned them.... You're right he has cute legs!! Hahaha

    RIP Dan and have fun on the other side too....
     
  21. IndyFan

    IndyFan Karting

    Feb 21, 2010
    125
    If you are a racing fan you might want to check out the auction organized by Graham Rahal for the Dan Wheldon Family Trust Fund.

    Only a few items have been posted this evening and the bids are climbing. Hundreds of items to be posted over the next few days. A chance to bid on some once in a lifetime items.

    On the right is a list of some of the items that will be available. Scroll down for items currently up for bid.

    http://stores.ebay.com/celebritycharityauctions/pages/dan-wheldon-memorial
     
  22. Whisky

    Whisky Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jan 27, 2006
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    The original Fernando
    Then you may as well cancel most shows on TV, medical shows, war shows, anything where someone does something that somebody else doesn't agree with.

    Bloodlust is NOT why people watch open wheel racing, but then again, almost nobody watches open wheel racing in the USA anyway.

    Quite honestly: I really thing the main reason (the media) is making such a big deal out of this is because nobody of this stature has been killed in racing since Earnhardt, and in the last 11 years the world has seen the explosion of online media, twitter, droid, instant 'news'.
     
  23. Whisky

    Whisky Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jan 27, 2006
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    The original Fernando
    That's an absurd question.

    Ok, let's enclose the cockpit, and let's put bodywork over the wheels, and we can run a spec chassis (Dallara) and a spec motor (Honda), and we can call it 'nascar'... and people will still die.
     
  24. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Oct 3, 2002
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    +1

    It is not that people want to see blood (nobody I know does) but there has to be the element of real risk. Ever wondered why a circus act is fascinating? Why there has to be a girl opposite to the knife thrower? Why the dompteur has to put his face into the lion's jaw? Why the trapeze artists work without a net? Same thing.

    Bingo. Any Indy 500 winner getting killed is big news.
     
  25. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 28, 2003
    75,396
    Texas!
    Why can't we stop here?

    Dale
     

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