Replicas/fakes: the road to moral ruin

I am only talking about for the sake of having one, not for any other intentions like driving price down. Everyone is going to have a different perspective on why people build or buy replicas. I would only have on for the sake of having the car considering it wasn't available any other way. Theres no way I would buy a Fiero based version of anything, it's ludicrous.

I am all for the preservation of classic and historical cars, I don't condone thse being used as donor cars in any way.

Shelby Cobras, with as many replicas as there are out there, haven't suffered because of it.

the shame comes when someone tried to convince people it's not a replica, or as previously mentioned, when they hack up a real version for their pleasure.

 

I think we're on the same page

 

When I see a Cobra, it NEVER CROSSES MY MIND IT MIGHT be original.

Nor do I fault the guy for it.



I love the replicas too (it must have a Ford motor though as someone said above).

 

Gents, I'll do the fieldwork.

Honestly, I don't think this study applies to the "recreation" variant of fakes (apart from the plastic-bodied Fiero's and 240Z GTO's). A true re-body using an original Ferrari chassis and drivetrain is an expensive proposition and, to my knowledge, is seldom represented as "original" anymore. That was not always the case, of course.

To me, someone buying a 250 SWB or Cal Spider recreation is (right or wrong) generally not trying to portray themselves as wealthy so much as seeking an experiential quality that is unattainably expensive. That's a big difference from those who wear artificial brands for show.

 

But, how do you prove that? You're making an assumption that Cobra prices might not be even higher if replicas never existed.

And, you're just talking about money. It's not just about money.

Fakes cheapen originals no matter if it's a fake purse, fake watch, fake art, or fake car. They may not cheapen the price. What they cheapen is: the experience. The experience of ownership and the experience of viewership.

If every Cobra were real, think about your impression of seeing one on the street would be. Now think of it today. You don't even turn your head. You assume it's a fake. No big deal. How sad for a real one.

The experience has been cheated. Something extraordinary has become something ordinary. If that's a good thing I find
it hard to swallow.

One last thing. I've found that most people who have no problem with fakes have never created anything in their lives. If they did however, they'd be the first to scream FAKE if they saw a knockoff of their creation on the market.

 

Well so much for keeping my head down and staying out of trouble.

I don't care much for the Corvette or Fiero or VW kits, I think that those owners just want to impress people, mostly women. They don't drive any different than the donor car.

But really, some VW speedsters are better cars than the original item. And some of the well designed, and well built small block cobras are much better rides than the real item. I think those owners own them for the driving experience. Not to impress.

As for my fake, well oval tube frame as original, 12 cyl motor and parts not from a restorable car but from several cars that somebody else destroyed. And no F car badging.

Starting a second one and just like the first. No F car badges. I was seriously thinking of placing a stretched Fiat 124 body on the frame.

WHY. simple. I build them to drive them. I enjoy the design and construction as much as driving, honestly, more than driving them. I don't own them to impress, and, I do not want to be compared to F car owners who own Ferrari's for the same reasons that some people own fake Ferrari's. Or are you going to pretend that some Ferrari owners, a small number, don't own them for the same reasons that some people buy fakes. Simply to impress?

And tell me please, What is the difference between a new Ferrari California, and a Maserati or Alfa 8C ?

Before you start flaming. Just one question. Have you really never, ever, met a Ferrari owner who claims that driving fast on public roads is irresponsible, and yet has never been to track time?
Oh yea the new project, 400 drivetrain, and a too good to pass up deal on an imcomplete Cal Spyder body. As in Ferris Bueller, now remember, no badges. But really, will my driving experience be any less Ferrari like than the new California Spyder driver?

OK I've got nomex on, and earplugs.

 

Well said! I'm a ******* purist, too!

I was going to propose that we print membership cards for the "******* Purist Club," but somebody would probably counterfeit them.

 

Nothing -- if you believe there is no difference between a cherry, an orange and a tomato.

What's the difference between a real Gto and a rebodied 240Z with a plastic body on top? I suppose you would say: nothing? The 240z rebody would be more reliable, faster, easier to maintain, and easy to drive. So, is it then "better"?

Uh....I don't think so.

 

I was actually thinking about making t-shirts that identify the bearer as a Ferrari "Purist", but my fear was the opposite of yours; that I would get a letter from Ferrari SpA legal demanding that I cease and desist from the unauthorized/unlicensed use of the horse . . . .

 

Interesting article. I just don't understand the point of replicas...why bother?

 

There is even one out there using Mondials and 3x8s for Enzo clones (as an alternative to a MR2 or BMW V12 with tube frame.
I would rather have a real Mondial than a fake Enzo.

 

i've a foot in both camps. at our monthly car show a young boy asked me if my 308 gtb was a kit. i jokingly told him yes it was assembled from parts in marrenallo italy. his dad corrected him. i also drive a fiberfab midgi. it a vw based english styled roadster. i have no british badging on it but when asked what it is i always reply it's a volkswagen since i believe the running gear is a cars' true identity. it's my daily driver something i couldn't do with a real example. i too don't understand why someone would take the time and expense to build a replica car when there are plenty of the real things that could be restored.

 

good points.

your last paragraph, I am not saying I have no problem with fakes, just that I can appreciate the work that goes into the very, very small percentage of quality replicas.

 

I can understand that. But a fake, no matter how well done, is still stealing to me if unauthorized.

There are some wonderful money counterfeiters out there. They work very hard to fool everyone that their money is real.

That doesn't mean I want them doing it.

 

Are you really suggesting that anyone wants the driving experience of a LE Car. Or that someone who wants to race should avoid Factory Five's Cobra Challenge and buy a real cobra, or pass on a Lotus 7 Kit, and only race a real one? Psst! some people actually like to build things. And Cobras, get real, first is the 166, then the 212, then Tojerro's special, then the AC ace, then the 289 then the 427, nobody owns the rights to that body style. It started out as touring, was copied, then copied and copied again.

With the exception of the Ferris Bueller car, which at the price I got it was simply to good a business deal to pass up. Max 20k total invested to finish. The ford powered cars go for 60-70K. go figure. The profit will buy a 550. I also have a fiberglass track car project. that is it for fiberglass replicas'

But my other builds have been clean sheet, tube frame steel bodies, inspired by a mix of Pininfarina designs from the 60's. Not copies. And you equate that with bonding fiberglass panels to a 240Z. That's interesting.

My personal car looks like a 250 Lusso spider. Not exactly, just similar. Now, how is that any different than Chinetti's decision to chop 275 coupes? I am not claiming that it is the same. or that it is as valid as a NART spider, or even a Straman copy. but I am sure you can tell me how it's just a piece of s**t. After all it's not real. Right? But then again I don't badge these cars, or call them real.

By your definition, Nart Spyders, anything by Fantuzzi, any one off custom built is a fake. Because you forget, Ferrari built motors, drivetrain and mechanicals. The bodies were built by coachbuilders. Anyone using Ferrari mechanicals, and designing and building their own body is a coachbuilder. Bertone, Pininfarina, Zagato, anyone. and each builder has a style that shows up again and again in their work, regardless of the Car Co. they design for, that's why a 124 Fiat looks like a 275 GTS. And on and on and on. If the badges match the drivetrain what's your problem.

 

i agree with you 100%.

i may buy an aluminum kirkham soon...i will will drive the heck out of it w/o concern!

i do however hate the thought of 250 and 330 ferraris being sacrificed to make a recreation but take some comfort knowing that if it has happened, the likes of a legend like jim rose is building something special with it.

i guess it is me finding a way to have it both ways.

pcb

 

If every Cobra were real, then hardly anyone would ever see one on the street. My impression of one would, in all likelihood, not exist. Apart from a couple folks on the planet that take their original Cobras onto the highway, all of them remain in garages, under blankets, et cetera. Also, if only real Cobras existed, hardly anyone would actually know what it is, fake or not. The phenomena of the replica has kept the Cobra alive and relevant to thousands upon thousands of people, allowing it to penetrate into the later generations and exceed the original image's normal lifespan. The times I've seen original Cobras on the street were certainly special, but I have thoroughly enjoyed seeing, learning about and discussing the many beautiful and exciting replicas that frequent the streets.

If the owner of the original Cobra is going to somehow have less of a driving and ownership experience by others assuming that it is fake, then that owner of the real thing needs a shot of self esteem, not the owner of the fake.

Should we forgo the pleasure and enjoyment of the thousands of replica owners and enthusiasts, and all the pleasure and enjoyment of the casual majority of car nut viewers just so you and a select other few "purists" can have a big whoopee over seeing an original Cobra on the streets a couple of times in your life?

 

As I said before, I generally don't mind the fakes, unless they look something like this . . .
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

I think there are different levels of "replica abuse", if you will. Three of which quickly come to mind: As to the wearing of knock-off clothes, watches, handbags,etc, I'd agree that the owner of said items is a pure poseur because it serves no purpose other than to suggest a false financial status/achievement in life. IMO, these people probably have some serious self-esteem issues. I'll leave it to the psychologists flesh out the causes & effects of projecting a false image.

The second type of "replica abuser" simply has bad taste. Case in point, the guy who spends $2,500 on a Monet reproduction & proudly hangs it in the living room. Fine...you like the painting, but do you realize it looks NOTHING like the original. This guy fails to realize that the devil is in the details. Since the painting was not purchased with nefarious ends in mind, you can only fault this guy for lack of taste.

The third abuser (of which I would have to classify myself) relates to cars. The Fiero-based cars and the like are probably not worth discussing. However, I can understand the 550 & Cobra replicas because 1) nobody thinks its real & 2)the car was bought to experience a visceral thrill not available in a contemporary machine. To this day the most raw, memorable & ****** pucker factor car I've ever driven (race cars included) was a 550 replica built by Wil Cashen Of Automotive Legends in Malibu. Controlling gobs of power going into pizza cutter-esque wheels while strapped in a featherweight shell with your head above the tiny windscreen was awesome. That particular car was close to $70K. Although I couldn't live with myself for dropping that kind of money on a replica I can't fault anyone who does. It's a toy to be played with for no one's satisfaction or approval except the owner.

 

"Immitation is the highest form of flattery."

Does anybody car what you drive or care what you wear but you? If they do care, are they really the kind of people that matter in your life?

Trying to impress others is a waste of time and energy. Read "Awareness" by Anthony DeMello, SJ.

Are we trying to impress ourselves? Why? Does it change who you are? Of course not.

"To thine own self be true."

That being said I like real stuff. I like real people. I don't have time for fakes. If you do, that's your thing.

PS. I don't think they will let you in the Ferrari Club with a replica.

Before I could really afford a real Ferrari I had several fakes called Porsches, BMWs and Mercedes.

 

Real Ferraris......FAKE Oakleys..........

 

I don't think that comparing Ferrari replicas to Cobra replicas is a good analogy. How many 289 and 427 motors did Ford make for any car? Tens of thousands? Hundreds of thousands? How many tipo 128F outside plug colombo v-12s did Ferrari make? Less than a thousand?

As I said earlier, making a "good" Ferrari replica probalby requires a chassis and definitely a correct period motor. This necessarily means that a real Ferrari from the 1960s gets cut up. I would have to think that donor Ford 289 or 427 motors for Cobra replicas are plentiful.