Replacement 355 Pistons

lusso64 · Oct 18, 2007

In light of the ever increasing numbers of 355 owners finding themselves doing full engine rebuilds due to leak-down and low compression problems, Ricambi is pleased to announce the availability of complete piston/ring/pin/liner sets.

The piston/pin combo weighs 359 grams - the same as early 355s and significantly less than the 376 grams of the later cars and those currently available from Ferrari. Each piston set is balanced and the pistons have ceramic coated crowns and teflon coated skirts. They are matched to new Nikasil coated liners.

As each set of pistons is matched not only by weight but also to the liner set, these items are only available as a complete set.

Pricing will be finalized in the next few days, but it will be considerably cheaper than OEM.

http://www.ricambiamerica.com/product_info.php?products_id=263945

Please contact us for further information.
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Quadcammer · Oct 18, 2007

Is it a mahle piston?

2618, 4032, or Hyper piston?

Thanks

bpu699 · Oct 18, 2007

Cool! If folks keep coming up with replacement parts, these cars will become more and more affordable...

lusso64 · Oct 18, 2007

Quadcammer said: ↑

Is it a mahle piston?

2618, 4032, or Hyper piston?

Thanks
Click to expand...

They are in fact a custom make. Definitely not mahle

The design criteria were pretty simple - must be the same size and shape as OEM, same weight as the early pistons, and better quality.

Andi355 · Oct 19, 2007

What is the price for the whole set ?

lusso64 · Oct 19, 2007

In my original post I wrote that the weight is 359, not 376.

The correct weight is actually 376 and not 380+ (In developing these pistons, we examined numerous new pistons from Ferrari and found a variation of more than 10 grams).

My apologies for this mixup. The 359 number came from my complete inability to perform simple addition

Also, pricing should be finalized today or tomorrow - I'll advise as soon as I have this info.

gothspeed · Oct 19, 2007

Are these forged, cast or pressure cast?? What grade of aluminum are they?

UConn Husky · Oct 19, 2007

gothspeed said: ↑

Are these forged, cast or pressure cast?? What grade of aluminum are they?
Click to expand...

Very important question. Either way thanks Ricambi for making these available!

lusso64 · Oct 20, 2007

They are forged and the aluminum is a proprietary grade - I'll ask on Monday for more details, but I doubt that the manufacturer will divulge this. Same as Mahle (OEM) - I doubt they'd release that info either. Still, no harm asking...

gothspeed · Oct 20, 2007

lusso64 said: ↑

They are forged and the aluminum is a proprietary grade - I'll ask on Monday for more details, but I doubt that the manufacturer will divulge this. Same as Mahle (OEM) - I doubt they'd release that info either. Still, no harm asking...
Click to expand...

....forged is good ...... usually original equipment keeps the alloy formula a secret..... and aftermarket toots about how great their stuff is to get sales moving.... ....... where are they made?

lusso64 · Oct 20, 2007

gothspeed said: ↑

....forged is good ...... usually original equipment keeps the alloy formula a secret..... and aftermarket toots about how great their stuff is to get sales moving.... ....... where are they made?
Click to expand...

USA

Ferraripilot · Oct 20, 2007

Looks like a JE coating to me. If so, JE uses a very high grade aluminum and the piston to wall clearances should be able to be a little tighter than OEM with JE, if that is indeed what they are.

gothspeed · Oct 20, 2007

lvferraripilot said: ↑

Looks like a JE coating to me. If so, JE uses a very high grade aluminum and the piston to wall clearances should be able to be a little tighter than OEM with JE, if that is indeed what they are.
Click to expand...

Tighter does not automatically mean better.....

When pistons are forged, the compostion is tighter/stronger. That is why they use a larger clearance during assembly. Which is one of the reasons to warm our cars up before getting "on them"... to allow the forged piston among other things to "expand into" their tighter/operating clearance.

Cast pistons use a tighter tolerance during assembly (when cold) because they will not expand as much as forged pistons do from cold.

Either way piston designers come up with their "cold" clearances based on how the piston material expands when it gets to operating temps.

Ferraripilot · Oct 21, 2007

The thermal expansion coefficiency of cast aluminum is undoubtedly greater than that of forged aluminum (2618 forged aluminum with .25% silicon). For instance, a 4.xxx" diameter forged piston could have a piston to wall clearance of .0035-.0004. Cast is considerably higher at .0007-.0009. If we were talking about 4032 aluminum with 11-13.5% silicon, then the expansion rate would be similar to that of cast, but for our applications we would use 2618 or something nearly as hard and that expands very little.

gothspeed · Oct 21, 2007

Forged pistons
Though forged pistons are used primarily in heavy-duty diesel truck applications and few OEM passenger car engines today, they remain a popular alternative for aftermarket performance and marine engine rebuilders. The main attraction of forged pistons is their ductility, which allows them to withstand punishment that would destroy ordinary cast pistons.

The forging process eliminates porosity in the metal, which makes it denser and stronger. The type of alloy used in forged pistons is also up to 600% more ductile than that used in conventional and hypereutectic cast pistons. The result is a stronger piston that is well suited to racing and other equally punishing environments.

Forged pistons also run 18% to 20% cooler than cast pistons because the metal conducts heat away from the combustion chamber more quickly. This reduces the risk of detonation – but the trade-off is greater thermal expansion in the piston. Consequently, forged pistons require greater installed clearances which increases cold start noise and blowby.

The best advice from the piston manufacturers is to replace same with same, or better. If a late model engine has hypereutectic pistons (or in some turbo motors, forged pistons), they should be replaced with the same type of piston to maintain engine reliability.
Click to expand...

above is quoted from this site:

http://www.babcox.com/editorial/ar/ar129832.htm

lusso64 · Oct 22, 2007

Here's a picture showing the underside of a new piston, side by side with an OEM one. (OEM on the left).
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gothspeed · Oct 22, 2007

lusso64 said: ↑

Here's a picture showing the underside of a new piston, side by side with an OEM one. (OEM on the left).
Click to expand...

So which are lighter? you mentioned 376 and not 380.....?

I am guessing....

Factory is 380 grams?

New are 376 grams?

lusso64 · Oct 22, 2007

gothspeed said: ↑

So which are lighter? you mentioned 376 and not 380.....?

I am guessing....

Factory is 380 grams?

New are 376 grams?
Click to expand...

OEM - as removed from several engines, are around 376. New OEM are 380 + (Some very +).

New from Ricambi - 376, but stronger. The developer has a set that have been reduced by 20 grams each piston. These will be tested over the coming months, and if they don't break, will be an option.

New headers are next in the pipeline, followed by stainless steel valve sets. The headers are based on the OEM design but not made out of swiss cheese There should be stainless headers, and <gasp!> inconel headers. Don't ask about heat shielding at this stage - it hasn't been determined. It will be done right though.

That's all for now - more info on these once they are out of the testing phase, assuming all goes to plan.

Ferraripilot · Oct 23, 2007

gothspeed said: ↑

above is quoted from this site:

http://www.babcox.com/editorial/ar/ar129832.htm
Click to expand...

It all depends on the silicon content in the forged piston. If it has a lower silicon content, it will NOT expand as much as a cast piston. Study on the effects silicon has with ferrous and non-ferrous metals and its thermal expansion coefficiencies and you will understand.

gothspeed · Oct 24, 2007

lvferraripilot said: ↑

It all depends on the silicon content in the forged piston. If it has a lower silicon content, it will NOT expand as much as a cast piston. Study on the effects silicon has with ferrous and non-ferrous metals and its thermal expansion coefficiencies and you will understand.
Click to expand...

Actually you have it backwards, lower silicon content in a forged piston will lend itself to expand more. So in turn more silicon, when uniformly added to an aluminum alloy, hardens the aluminum alloy further and the piston will expand less when heated.

Ferraripilot · Oct 24, 2007

Silicon does not harden aluminum. You have it backwards. 2618 forged aluminum has .25% silicon and is the hardest stuff JE/Ross uses. SRP pistons (JE's cheaper line) use 4032 which is 11-13.5% silicon and in-turn expands more.

gothspeed · Oct 24, 2007

lvferraripilot said: ↑

Silicon does not harden aluminum. You have it backwards. 2618 forged aluminum has .25% silicon and is the hardest stuff JE/Ross uses. SRP pistons (JE's cheaper line) use 4032 which is 11-13.5% silicon and in-turn expands more.
Click to expand...

............you are confused....

...read this from this site: http://www.cpperformance.com/products/engine_parts/pistons.htm

Purpose Designed Forgings. Reducing machining time is the main objective behind purposed designed forgings. Forged side relief's, symmetrical valve pockets, for universal installation, are just some of the ways SRP keeps overall cost down. Forged from 4032 high-silicon aluminum for tighter clearances. And 2618 alloy for high compression applications. These proven alloys are the best available.
Click to expand...

.....tighter clearances means they expand less....

and this from this site:http://www.horsepowerfreaks.com/sale/JE/Engine/Pistons

Mahle PowerPak Honda B20B4 Hybrid B16 Pistons
The Mahle PowerPak is a complete, race proven piston assembly kit. It is composed of hand deburred, forged, performance coated pistons, high quality steel pins, round wire locks and low drag performance rings. Performance coatings include a phosphate dry lubricant that is used to protect against ring micro-welding and pin galling during initial startup and break in. For added performance, MAHLE applies its proprietary Grafel anti-friction coating to each piston skirt. Piston Kit Features: Forged from 4032 high silicon low expansion aluminum alloy for high strength.....
Click to expand...

.....same thing again...

...and again here......

TYPES OF PISTONS:

There are 2 types of ways to make pistons: Casting and Forging.

1. Cast :

- Casting means that molten liquid aluminum is poured into a mold that is in the shape of the piston.

- they are "WEAKER" than forged pistons and prone to cracking with use of nitrous and boost. For example the Nissan OEM cast pistons typically crack at the number 2 ring land.

There 2 types of CAST pistons based on their silicon content.:

1a) Standard Cast (< 12.5% Silicon Content)

- Expands uniformly but more than any other type of piston when heated

- Needs loosest intalled piston to wall clearances , since it expands most due to low silicon content when heated.

- Noisiest on cold engine start up and has the most blow-by of the 3 piston types in a cold engine because it has the least silicon content and therefore expands the most when the engine warms up from being cold causing it to require larger piston to wall clearances.

- requires reinforcement plates or struts near wrist pin area, since alloy expands more as temperatures increase. These struts often crack under high loads like detonation.

- requires ring groove insert to withstand ring land pound out and wear

1 b) Hypereutectic Cast (>12.5% Silicon Content, Most are 16-22% Silicon)

Hypereutectic is an adjective that refers to the silicon (same material found in sand) content in the piston. Hypereutectic means the piston has MORE silicon added to the mixing with aluminum alloy. Note that this is not SILICONE.

Eutectic means 12-12.5% silicon content.

Hypereutectic means > 12.5% silicon content.

Special melting process combines silicon to "super-saturate" the aluminum alloy. Special molds and casting- cooling processes are needed to get fine dispersing of silicon evenly or uniformly throughout aluminum alloy.

There are hypereutectic cast pistons available. These are more resistant to wear and scuffing, expand less with heat, and are stronger (more able to withstand higher cylinder temperatures , pressure, and detonation than standard cast.)

More silicon, if uniformly added to aluminum alloy, :

- Hardens the aluminum alloy further

- Expands less with heat (higher themal expansion co-efficient)

meets criteria for piston design: run tighter clearances. Hypereutectic pistons are stronger and can run narrower ring lands and tighter piston-to-wall clearances, since there is less heat expansion than standard cast. No wrist pin area re-inforcement plate is needed due to less rapid expansion with heat.

- No iron ring groove insert is needed to protect against ring land pound out. Ring groove is more heat and wear resistant with higher silicon.

- But extra hardness also makes the piston MORE BRITTLE (i.e. brittle meaning that it's easier to crack under stress and loading, like high rpms or under boost or detonation) and therefore must be handled more carefully on install.

Not all hypereutectic pistons are alike. The size of the silicon granules used and how well the silicon is mixed (distributed) in the aluminum alloy during the casting process affects the quality. If unevenly added and mixed, the silicon clumps and forms hard spots in different parts of the piston which crack more easily under high loads.

MOST STOCK OEM PISTONS ARE HIGH SILICON CAST.

2. Forged

- the process of making a forged piston involves heating a slug of aluminum alloy that is in the shape of a long cylinder and then pressing it into the die's piston shape under very high pressure, and then machining the surface. The mixture of ingredients in the metal is already in place and there is no adding and mixing like in casting where they added the silicon to the aluminum.

- Forging creates a DENSER AND LESS BRITTLE (600% more ductile or less porous) grain STRUCTURE that is stronger than cast piston's crystalline grain structure. Forged pistons can handle nitrous and high boost (temperature resistant and stronger) better than cast pistons.

- Forged pistons have high silicon content already mixed in the alloy but have less silicon than OEM hypereutectic cast pistons.

For example, an aftermarket forged Wiseco piston has 7% less silicon content than OEM Honda hypereutectic cast pistons.

- The less porous forged piston conducts heat faster and runs 20% COOLER than cast pistons (even hypereutectic cast) reducing higher (detonation-inducing) temperatures. There is better HEAT TRANSFER AWAY from the piston crown with forging. The heat can be transfered to the cylinder head (eg. when the piston is at the top of the exhaust stroke) and wicked away by the coolant flowing through the cylinder head.

- Forged pistons have greater thermal expansion than hypereutectic cast pistons and have greater clearances and can be noisier and may have more blow-by in a cold engine compared to hypereutectic cast pistons but it's NOT as noisy as eutectic or hypoeutectic standard cast pistons. Once the engine is warmed up, the clearances will then tighten and there is less noise from piston rock as it travels up and down the bore.
In fact, this is another advantage of forged pistons: They seal up and close up the clearances better than when heated. The trick of the racing engine builder's trade is to find the lowest cold engine clearances that they can choose so that when the forged pistons expands at warmup, the clearances are ultra-tight to get better engine compression and less leaking.
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Newman · Oct 24, 2007

Can I see a side shot of the OEM and the custom piston to compare skirt lenghts please?

I prefer to run pistons tighter rather than have them flop around until warm, it nackers the rings over time whereas a pressure cast high silicon piston that fits with a wall clearance of .0015" runs dead quiet, HC stay low, ring life is better and they can take mild boost so a NA engine will last a long time without piston or ring problems.

jetfixr · Oct 25, 2007

JEESH....Kinda went off on a tangent here didn't we.......I'm just glad they are available!!!!!!!

gothspeed · Oct 25, 2007

jetfixr said: ↑

JEESH....Kinda went off on a tangent here didn't we.......I'm just glad they are available!!!!!!!
Click to expand...

...true............ I apologize for my contribution to the tangent........

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