Renault finally protests Racing Point | Page 12 | FerrariChat

Renault finally protests Racing Point

Discussion in 'F1' started by jgonzalesm6, Jul 12, 2020.

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  1. NeilF8888

    NeilF8888 Formula 3

    Feb 10, 2005
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    Racing Point will end up third in the championship regardless of the 15 point penalty and that’s why McLaren and Ferrari joined the protests. Racing Point had the brake ducts last year, they couldn’t unlearn the design. It would be like trying to sue for a patent you had previously licensed, you can’t turn back time and reclaim knowledge previously sold. The rule was poorly written, Racing Point asked and received written permission from the authority and now have a group of sore losers nitpicking, it’s sickening and poor sportsmanship. If you want to win do it on the track not with an underhanded appeal on a team outperforming where it counts, on the track. Realistically does anyone believe Racing Point is outperforming the protesters because of its brake ducts? Let’s get on with the racing, that’s where we should grade performance.


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  2. DF1

    DF1 Two Time F1 World Champ

    Racing Point has protested in the past. You make the best of the system presented to you. Im sure Stroll Sr will use what rules and procedures are available to him to counter this. This is nothing new. Its F1. Get used to it. Politics drives this sport as much as funding does.
     
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  3. Simon^2

    Simon^2 F1 World Champ

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    #278 Simon^2, Aug 9, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2020
    If they (tRP) have done nothing wrong, there is nothing to fear from a protest.

    There are concerns, at the very least, the brake ducts are just the tip of the iceberg.
     
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  4. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    That's my opinion too.
    The sad fact is that the FIA doesn't do its job, but let the participants to sort out the issue through protests,
    Racing Point has been fined, but that judgement hasn't solved anything.
     
  5. NeilF8888

    NeilF8888 Formula 3

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    Anything specific you know other than the generalities being bantered around by naysayers? Speak up!


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  6. Simon^2

    Simon^2 F1 World Champ

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    Right back at ya!
     
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  7. Flavio_C

    Flavio_C Formula 3
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    Hahaha, are you a politician or a lawyer?

    It's blatantly OBVIOUS that the brake duct was just the tip that could provide a decent thesis for Renault's protest. THE ENTIRE CAR WAS BUILT ON THE MERCEDES DRAWINGS OF LAST YEAR. THAT'S AGAINST THE RULES, PERIOD.
     
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  8. Flavio_C

    Flavio_C Formula 3
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    What about the rest of the car, what do you say about it?
     
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  9. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    IMO, if a competitor is knowingly doing "something wrong", it should be disqualified from participating.

    It should not be allowed to compete, to be protested after.

    Why are the Racing Point cars not protested before a GP, but after ?

    That's why in most series cars are scrutinised before racing, to check their conformity.
     
  10. jgonzalesm6

    jgonzalesm6 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Good point. The cars do get "scrutinized" on Thursday.
     
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  11. Simon^2

    Simon^2 F1 World Champ

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    I get your point,... but it's competition.

    There is something in the rules that makes it advantageous to protest after. It may be as simple as not wasting your bullet if they finish out of the points...

    As you know,... there are rules for everything... and F1 is about using the rules to your teams best advantage.
     
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  12. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    So how the car was inspected by the FIA, and passed OK then?
    Who are the referees in F1? Where do the inspectors come from?
    Can this turn into a kangoroo court where enough protests will bring the exclusion of a competitor.
    Why Renault, and others, don't sue the FIA for accepting the Racing Point car?
     
  13. ingegnere

    ingegnere F1 Veteran
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    Missing the point really. It’s like saying shoplifting a pack of gum is OK because it’s really not a big deal to the store. It’s still against the law—even if you maybe forgot to pay for it.

    To avoid appearing like I really give a **** or that this changes my life, I’ll spare you trying to explain why Renault chose the ducts as the test case and why the others appealed and so suggest you read this thread from the beginning if you really care or are interested to learn.
     
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  14. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    I think it's advantageous for theatrical effect; protesting the (good) result of a competitor is certain to provoke a scandal.

    Protesting during scrutinering doesn't create the same effect, if you really wish to harm a competitor.
     
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  15. 375+

    375+ F1 World Champ
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  16. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Most of the time, a CEO doesn't know everything that is going on in his company.
    But his first reaction is to protect it and back up his staff in case of accusation.
    A leader who wouldn't do that first would never obtain any respect.
    That's why heads fall sometimes, because people in charge have protected their subordonates beyond reasonable.
     
  17. Simon^2

    Simon^2 F1 World Champ

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    While that is often true,... I doubt that applies in this case.

    The link between MB and tRP is the Stroll-Toto relationship. Very unlikely anything happened without those two's knowledge.
     
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  18. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Or, it could be that the 2 technical teams exchange data, and cooperate on some details without necessarilly informing the management of all the details.
    It wouldn't be surprising since they share the same power units, and some other components on the cars.
    Mercedes must give them guidelines about many aspects on the car, for Racing Point to implement in their design.

    I think if there was a real intent to cheat, it would have been done better, and supported by much documentation.
    But equally Racing Point could have been more pro-active as soon as the issue of copying was raised.

    Have you followed the Land Rover v. Ineos case recently?
    The Ineos Grenadier is a look alike of the old LR Defender; yet Ineos won their case.
    They were expecting to be sued, and prepared for it !
     
  19. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    I'm happy to see that RP was already able to get the WCC position back from Renault. Hopefully more to come.
     
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  20. sp1der

    sp1der F1 Rookie

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    Except the Ineos will be more reliable
     
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  21. DF1

    DF1 Two Time F1 World Champ

    https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/151289/williams-explains-position-in-racing-point-appeal - Glad they are not afraid to contest this. I agree with Williams. RP and its leadership hope to intimidate others from doing this. Toto is not the person to 'mediate' anything. Impartial he is not. He is defending those who clone while others make their performance parts themselves. Claire is not wrong at all. This should go forward.

    Claire Williams says a "very clear" position regarding the DNA of Formula 1 is behind her team's decision to appeal the FIA's ruling in the Racing Point brake duct case.

    Williams is one of four rival teams that responded to the FIA's ruling on the Racing Point brake duct case, a guilty verdict that yielded a €400,000 fine and a 15-point penalty, by filing an intention to appeal.

    Ferrari, McLaren, and Renault - which led the campaign against Racing Point with a string of protests - have also formally called for a harsher sanction, while Racing Point has made its own appeal in a bid to clear its name.

    The rival appeals have drawn the ire of Racing Point owner Lawrence Stroll, who earlier this week said he is "appalled by the way Renault, McLaren, Ferrari and Williams have taken this opportunity to appeal, and in doing so attempted to detract from our performances".


    However Claire Williams says her team is "very clear" on its position regarding the design of performance parts and its importance to Formula 1.

    "It's quite a difficult conversation for all us to have," she told the Australian Grand Prix's In the Fast Lane podcast.

    "Quite honestly, nobody wants to be criticising your fellow competitors. As much as this is a sport, and we're all incredibly competitive against each other and [you] use everything within your armoury to beat your rivals, nobody every really wants this situation.

    "But Williams has always been very clear on what we feel to be the real and true DNA of this sport, the traditional DNA.


    "Some would argue that, well, that is traditional, that is history, and in order to be successful you need to adapt, innovate and change, and that's what teams like Racing Point have done.

    "But we will always stand by the philosophy that Formula 1 teams, constructors, should absolutely be designing and manufacturing the performance-related parts on their cars.

    "Obviously this is the question, the debate, that's going on around Racing Point at the moment with their rear brake ducts.

    "I don't want to go into a whole lot of commentary about it, I don't think that it's right.

    "We have submitted our intent to protest with the FIA, and it's up to the FIA. It's their jurisdiction in order to analyse what's happened and in order to attribute punishment if that's appropriate or penalties if that's appropriate, if [Racing Points is] found in breach of regulations."
     
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  22. furoni

    furoni F1 World Champ

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    You even speak like papa stroll, no wonder you defend him!
     
  23. DF1

    DF1 Two Time F1 World Champ

    Latest on Mclaren with view of appeal - https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/151296/mclaren-drops-racing-point-brake-duct-appeal

    In effect with at least two teams already pursuing the matter there was little for McLaren to gain by remaining involved.

    A statement given to Autosport said: "McLaren Racing has decided not to appeal the decisions of the FIA Stewards in relation to Renault's protests of Racing Point.

    "The team welcomes the Stewards' decisions and findings in this case and importantly that the FIA has demonstrated that transgressions of the rules will be investigated and punished.

    "Moreover, McLaren Racing is pleased that the FIA will further clarify the sporting and technical regulations to protect Formula 1 as a sport where teams are clearly defined as Constructors, and removes the potential that the Formula 1 World Championship includes cars that are, in effect, copies of other competitors'.


    "Taking the above and a broad view of all factors into account, McLaren Racing will not continue with an appeal in this case.

    "Additionally, McLaren Racing respects the decisions of Ferrari and Renault to pursue their appeals and will follow proceedings with interest."
     
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  24. DF1

    DF1 Two Time F1 World Champ

    From Ferrari - https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/151291/binotto-racing-point-case-like-copying-a-test

    Mattia Binotto has compared Racing Point's role in the Formula 1 brake duct controversy to "copying a test" amid Ferrari's plans to appeal for a harsher sanction.

    Racing Point was handed a 15-point constructors' championship penalty and a €400,000 fine after its brake ducts were ruled to have been designed via an illegal process.

    Racing Point called the ruling "a bit bewildering", and has confirmed its intention to appeal the sanction and clear its name.

    But with the team permitted to continue to use the rear brake ducts for the rest of the season, many of Racing Point's rivals have voiced anger over the leniency of the penalty.

    Ferrari, Williams, Renault and McLaren are all planning formal appeals against the ruling, which would result in the case going to the FIA International Court of Appeal.

    It sparked an angry response from Racing Point team owner Lawrence Stroll in a rare public statement, while Mercedes F1 boss Toto Wolff has voiced his opinion that Racing Point is innocent.

    Ferrari team principal Binotto called the ruling from the FIA stewards a "starting point" in the case, and that the breach in the regulations was obvious.

    "As Ferrari we have already talked about the Racing Point case on Friday, we have already said what we think," Binotto said on Sky Sports Italia.

    "There have been protests, and there was the first verdict that said that what Racing Point did is illegal. This is a starting point.

    "Stroll and Wolff may be furious, but there has been a violation of the regulations here.
     
  25. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    I wonder which engine Mclaren is using next year....

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