Hi, I believe it is the case, but just wanted to double check. I want to replace the seals on the camshafts and it looks like they will need to be unbolted and lifted, since the seal sits in groove. Any tips on pressing the new seal in on the end of the shaft and also unbolting/tightening the shaft? (in addition to ensure its on the timing marks) Thanks Image Unavailable, Please Login
Yes cams out, need to pull motor to release the tensioner to remove the belts. Here is a whole series done by fchatter. Cams are probably about part 5. He is doing deep major, timing chain tensioner etc so you can ignore those parts. Sent using FerrariChat.com mobile app
Thanks. Very helpful link My engine is already out, so I'm just working my around things which look like they need changing.
Many step by step threads too, Ernie did one that is very good. It's all out here. https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/index.php?threads/438576/ Sent using FerrariChat.com mobile app
I imagine I will be drawn and quartered for suggesting this, but all 4 of the cam seals and o-rings on our 355 were replaced with the cams in place... The aluminum end cap can come off with the seal and old o-ring still in place, then a generous application of new engine oil and slowly and evenly tightening the nuts down on the end cap until the o-ring goes in place. The oil seals slide right over the camshaft. We did it this way in 2018, and have no cam seal leaks to speak of. The last 'technician' to do a major on our car decided that RTV was needed in addition to the o-ring. Image Unavailable, Please Login
That's certainly a brute force approach and glad it worked out OK. I think I'd be worried about pinching the seal or fracturing one of the bolt tabs on the seal cover.
Not that how you replaced the seals could be considered wrong, but my question would be what was the driving factor for choosing this method? Removing the sprockets to get the covers to come off, in lieu of removing the cams would seem to me to be more involved with more risk, but maybe I'm looking too much into it. Just curious.
The caps came off easily enough (pulled off by hand) with the cams in place, our assumption was that it was designed to be done that way. After the first one (in the picture above) came off exceptionally easily, we agreed to try to refit one seal holder and fall back to pulling the cams if that didn't work. It went back in with a new o-ring and seal pretty effortlessly, without any undue stress on the aluminum seal holder or pinching the o-ring. After the first one went in, the other three were done in less than 30 minutes. Of course, when the valve covers went back on, a little dab of RTV was put in each 'corner'. Not the ridiculous amount that was smeared all over like the pic above.
I scoped it about 2 months ago. No oil leaks on the front of the engine... we did the major in March of 2018. The silicone on that seal holder and o-ring were 'CYA' amounts by the last tech.
Wait. I'm confused. The picture that you posted is from one of the REAR cam seals, no? Isn't this thread about the front cam seals? If you include the fronts, there are 8 cam seals not 4.
Original posts picture shows the front ones yes. OP was asking about the fronts behind the cam sprockets.
It can be done without removing the belt or engine. You can cut the original and feed through and re-glue at the highest point. There are threads on it and I have done successfully in a few hours. Leak was fixed.
That is the O-ring not the seal though. There is an O-Ring and a seal. The seal is an actual seal pressed into the front cap. OP mentioned the seal so we have to assume he did not mean o-ring. Engine is coming out for the seal or your asking for problems. I suppose you could drop the gas tank for that. O-ring you can cut and feed so it is noted.
Hi all. As the OP, I thought I should update you on how I got on and for future reference for others. I'd originally thought that the O-rings sat in a groove, therefore removing them required the whole camshaft to be lifted, so that the Camshaft caps (and seals) could be slid of the shaft after removing the pulley. I discovered that this wasn't the case after I'd removed the pulley without lifting the camshaft and the caps, O-ring and seals then simply slide off the end of the shaft. So krazykarguy was correct. I then changed the Seals, O-rings and with some assembly-lube on the o-ring, the caps slid nicely back into position. So no need to remove the cam shafts. Clearly I had the engine out at the time, but its now all back in and running nicely with no oil leaks that I can see. Thanks for your help
Great that you confirmed this, gatekeeper. I'm replacing my cam seals this week, so this is excellent information. By the way, how did you lock the cams when removing the cam pulley bolt? And how did you lock the cams when torquing the cam bolt to 98 Nm after replacing the seals?
Hi., I did this the same time as changing the cambelts, so used the existing belts to hold the camshafts still. Prior, to this I pondered with other ways of locking the camshafts, but since I'd locked the crankshaft with a flywheel tool and the timing marks all aligned... I thought the worse that could happen would be that the old belts would stretch or slip under the pressure of undoing the camshaft pulley bolts. Thankfully they didn't move at all, therefore after changing the seals and refitting the pulley and belts, I then used them to torque up the bolts. Again nothing moved, after which I then fitted new cambelts and tension pulleys. Paul
Couple of other things whilst I remember. Removing the oil seals which are fitted inside the camshaft caps isn't easy. I was hoping they'd just pull out once the cap was removed from the camshaft after taking off the pulley... But they're very tight and well fitted inside the caps. Initially I tied to very careful cut them out as close as I'd dare go to the caps, but in the end I found that tearing them out with some groove pliars whilst the cap was held in a vice, was the most successful. Still wasn't easy so as to avoid any damage to the gap, but by the time I got to the 4th one I had the right twisting action to quickly remove them. You also certainly need a suitable sized seal fitting tool to press the new ones back in. As I said.... they're a tight fit. Hope this helps others.
I managed to remove the cam pulleys using the method you described. A flywheel locking tool combined with a breaker bar was all it took to crack loose the pulley bolts. I made sure to have cylinder 1 at TDC while cracking the bolts at the 5-8 bank, and cylinder 8 at TDC when cracking the bolts at the 1-4 bank, just in case something should snap and ending up turning the cam. Just to confirm, on my F355 M2.7 the front cam seal caps can be removed without taking out the cams. I removed the cam seals from the caps by knocking them out from behind using a hammer and a flat head screwdriver. That worked effortlessly without any damage to the cap.
Old thread I know, but perhaps someone out there knows what torque is used for the cam pulley's. I think it is referenced at 98 NM. However, decoding pages B86, B87 & B88 is confusing at best. In fact, what is the whole torque profile? Cam Bearing clamps = 8.8 NM Cam pulley = 98 NM Belt tension bearing bolt = ?? Belt tensioner bracket bolt = ?? Main timing gear bolt to crankshaft = ??
Think this is complete: Cam Bearing clamps = 8.8 NM Cam pulley = 98 NM + locktite Belt tension bearing bolt = 49 NM Belt tensioner bracket bolt = 49 NM Main timing gear bolt to crankshaft = 196 NM + Locktite
