Relay Confusion

Assuming that your wiring is unmodified, the "start valve" relay should be a 0332204101 relay -- BUT this relay has 5 pins (30, 85, 86, 87, and 87a), not 4 pins as you indicate in your post. If the Bosch 0332204122 relay that you have also has terminals 30, 85, 86, 87, and 87a, it is quasi-identical to 0332204101 (at least those with 5-pins that I'm familiar with ). For the 0332204101 that you have with only 4 pins, how are those 4 terminals labeled? Can you tell if someone physically cut off the center 87a pin (in certain applications, doing this can allow a person to substitute such a modified 0332204101 for a 0332014113)?

The "fuel pump" relay should be 0332014113. This relay has 5 physical pins (30, 85, 86, 87, and 87), but two of them are connected together so they only show 4 pins on the schematics (30, 85, 86, and 87). This is a very common type relay, and many differrent manufacturers make equivalent substitutes -- no need to use a FIAMM brand relay. Again, check the FIAMM relay to see if the terminals are labeled -- if it has 30, 85, 86, 87, and 87, that would confirm things.

 

313 SPST single pole single throw - simple light switch - think monogamy
006 SPST single pole single throw - with extra contact on extra pin - turns on 2 lights at the same time. think threesome - they meet
101 SPDT singe pole double throw - turns ON light A OR turns on light B think wife then think mistress they don't meet.
...^

Steve, everything else is valid except the bit about the x113 having two contacts connected together. The two contacts are actually opposing. You are confusing the two 5 pin relays. The x113 is SPDT. The x006 is SPST. The x006 is a NO relay with paired open contacts whereas the 113 adds a NC contact. I learned that lesson hard by screwing up a drawing.

Tom, forget the x122 Bosch number as it's a bogus placeholder NLA, not to be used, kerplunkt. The fuel relay on a 1981 308NA (NA=US), lower left relay is the x113. Temporarily replace it with the diagonal (upper right) x113 brake warning relay. Final fix, use the improved relays which have higher contact current capability and are available high quality but quite inexpensively. Here is the cross reference and drawings http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showpost.php?p=140074679&postcount=1

FWIW I finally published the drawing for the 1981 308NA cars. It differs from the 1980 308NA as they added power driver mirror and front overhead dome light and repeating powerdoor locks (amenable to a keyless mod). Small but it's nice to have the right drawing.

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Agree with the first part of your post (assuming that you just mistyped 113 as 313), but not the second part that contradicts the first part -- ...113 is a SPST relay where the two 87 terminals are always connected together (it's ...101 that has the opposing contacts and is SPDT).

And there was no need to bring ...006 into this mess!

 

Steve, yes several typos added to the thread title and I swear to never post again after taking a sleeping pill.

TWright, the Bosch x122 relay (below) differs from the Ferrari specified x113 relay by having an added snubber pulse suppression circuit across the coil. Replace your relays with the originally specified x113 relay which is used in 8 places on the relay panel.

Relays have about 8 types of snubber circuits mostly to reduce radio noise. Some use several types of diodes in several ways and some require the sockets to be wired according to polarity or the snubber will blow up. That can go unnoticed but contaminants will litter the insides of the relay shortening its life.

Tyco bought the Bosch relay division in late 2005. I bought my relays from WayTekWire.com before their supply of original Boschs ran out but I am pleased with the quality of Tyco's bought since plus their good prices. Hence the cross reference chart posted here: http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showpost.php?p=140074679&postcount=1 recommending relays without snubbers.

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NO! You need one Bosch ...113 and one Bosch ...101 relay. The ...122 relay with the snubber is a SPDT like the ...101. Look at the schematic in the ...122 diagram that Paul posted -- it matches the ...101 (he wrongly typed "x113" in his post).

 

This is how it is supposed to be. If the key is "on", but the engine is not actually running (i.e., the safety switch on the airflow meter is closed) = fuel pump does not run (for safety reasons).

Don't you mean your Bosch ...113 EQUIVALENT relay only has 4 Remove the relay and look at the female socket to see if there is a metal female contact in the socket where your equivalent relay is missing the pin. This is how a real Bosch 113 female socket is configured:
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so the wire going to the fuel pump motor could be in the center 87 location or the bottommost 87 location and still work OK with the 5-pin Bosch ...113. If your relay only has 4 pins you need to assure that the female connector in the socket is located (center or bottommost) where the (single) 87 pin is on your equivalent Bosch ...113 relay.
The picture show how to manually use a "jumper" wire to run the fuel pump when the key is "off" -- but is assumes the +12V is supplied at the 30 terminal and the wire going to the fuel pump is located in the bottommost 87 terminal. My suggestion would be that you try this test too:

1. measure the voltage on the female 30 terminal relative to ground = should be +12V (even with the key "off").

2. If you pass step 1, use a jumper wire to connect the 30 female terminal to the female terminal in either the center 87 position (if it's there) or the bottommost 87 position (if it is there) = your fuel pump should run.

I don't like this at all, as your fuel pump should never come "on" when the key is "on" and the engine is not running (i.e., the safety switch is closed). If the 87 pin on your equivalent Bosch ...113 relay is (wrongly) located in the center position, but the wire for the fuel pump motor is in the bottommost 87 socket position (or vice versa), AND your safety switch is unplugged, this would happen with a Bosch ...006 relay -- i.e., the pump would not run with the key "on" and the equivalent Bosch ...113 relay, but it would run with the key "on" and the Bosch ...006 relay. Otherwise, you must have some other non-stock wiring modifications -- is your safety switch presently unplugged?
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The final result you should really have is:

1. key "on", engine not running, and safety switch plugged in = fuel pump does not run

2. key "on", engine not running, and saftey switch unplugged = fuel pump runs

3. key "on", engine running, and safety switch plugged in = fuel pump (and engine) runs

PS It would be a bad idea to use a Bosch ...006 in place of a Bosch ...113. The Bosch ...006 has two separate contacts rated at 15A each (and you would only be using one of those unless you made wiring changes in the socket to connect the fuel pump wire to both the 87 and 87b terminals). The Bosch ...113 has two contacts connected in parallel inside the relay itself so it is rated at 30A.

 

That's weird -- the schematic in your OM only shows the large P (beige) wire connected to terminal 87 of the fuel pump relay. The good news is that since your large P (beige) wire (which is the fuel pump motor wire) is in the center position that explains why your 4-pin equivalent behaves differently than a Bosch ...006 relay. Obviously, since you have female pins in all 5 positions of the fuel pump relay socket, you must use a real 5-pin Bosch ...113 relay there (or an equivalent with 5-pins). My advice would be to see if you can move a 5-pin Bosch ...113 relay from another place that's using a Bosch ...113 where the socket is only using 4-pins (matching where your equivalent relay has pins) and use the equivalent ...113 relay there.

Once you get to that point, if the fuel pump runs with the key "on" and the safety switch plugged in and the engine not running, I would unplug the safety switch and use a jumper wire to connect the two terminals in the safety switch harness connector (simulating a closed safety switch) -- if that turns the fuel pump off = you have a bad safety switch; if the fuel pump keeps running = that's a strange kettle of fish

 

Other manufacturers do make equivalent Bosch ...113 relays that do have the 5-pins (and the center 87 and bottom 87 pin are connected together), but...

Are you saying that you have no real 5-pin Bosch ...113 relays at all in your relay panel to try in the fuel pump position?

No, it might mean that someone has opened a wire somewhere to always look like an "open" safety switch condition (not a closed, jumpered saftety switch). The safety switch should control the "...101 start relay" -- i.e.:

key "on", engine not running, and safety switch terminals open (or unplugged) = start valve relay unenergized = +12V goes from start valve relay terminal 30 to GR (yellow/red) wire on fuel pump relay terminal 86 = closes fuel pump relay = fuel pump runs

key "on", engine not running, and safety switch terminals closed (or unplugged and jumpered together) = start valve relay energized = 0V goes from start valve relay terminal 30 to GR (yellow/red) wire on fuel pump relay terminal 86 = fuel pump relay unenergized = fuel pump does not run

Those are what you should check next (after getting a ...113 relay with 5 pins!)

 

I take the blame for much if not all of this confusion as I posted a blatant error in my Tyco Bosch chart and recommended the 4 pin Tyco for the 113 whereas the 5 pin should definitely be used. What Ferrari has done in the relay panel at the 'start' relay is to use the extra 87 as a way of tying two large wires together which wouldn't fit into one crimp connector. I wish I could recall or delete that chart but what's done is done and I can only apologize. Steve has been saying this all along.

Re the 'safety switch' I am reposting the entire circuit so you can understand why the extra 87 is required. Note if the factory workers reversed the two 87 (quite possible) the 4 pin relay would allow the engine to start. Connecting the two 87 wires at the relay panel is an acceptable workaround but permanently opening the air flow switch is not.

Other 113 relays in the panel may have the same dual 87 problem requiring a true 5 pin 113 substitute which are readily available. I purchased my relays from WayTekWire when they were still supplying original Bosch relays otherwise I might have learned this earlier or I could have listened to Steve. Mea Culpa

Now I can only hope I got through this without any typos.

(edit) Incidently, there is a fuse between the ignition switch 'Start' and the 101 relay. On my car it is physically separate from the fuse box and above it in a white cartridge housing with white/black wires. Although it's on the schematic, I've never seen it referenced in any owner's manual. If blown it's stealth nature can be a huge source of consternation.
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I should correct myself -- the two P wires (one large one going to the fuel pump and one small one going to the AAV heater and WUR heater -- as shown in Paul's diagram) are shown on the '81 US 308 OM schematic, but the OM schematic shows them connected to terminal 30 (by being swagged together into a single female spade connector) and the +12V power is a single P wire coming into terminal 87. Functionally, it doesn't make much difference when 30 and 87 are swapped (or when 85 and 86 are swapped), but Paul's diagram seems to match how it's wired on the actual car (so you need a 5-pin ...113 )

Good point about the "hidden" 130 fuse Paul -- I could envision someone making some non-stock wiring changes so that the fuel pump always just runs whenever the key is "on" rather than realizing that their real starting problem is caused a blown 130 fuse.

 

This WayTekWire catalog part looks proper, the color and drawing on the side of the photo is the same as my Bosch 113.
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(Just for another confirmation) Others had previously posted that same Tyco as a Bosch 113 substitute:
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