REDLINE VS AMSOIL

Rob,
There's no magic bullet in oil. Synthetic protects better, but tends to leak. Dino stuff protects well and doesn't leak as much. Blends are obviously in the middle.

In reality, you're simply not putting enough miles or driving hard enough for long enough to make a difference, provided you're using the right weight and good-quality oil...although just about every oil out there is better than when the GT4 was new.

If you're having wear issues, it probably is more about the original quality of the parts than the oil if you're doing frequent oil changes. (Every part of a car has a failure rate in normal use.) The biggest thing is simply to not allow your oil to get too dirty or absorb too much moisture (from time). Also, if your carbureted car is running really rich, the fuel can soak the oil, which degrades its performance.

But provided your car is well tuned and street driven -- buy whatever makes you happy. It likely will make no difference, but if you feel spending more for Redline or Amsoil (both great products) or Royal Purple or some full synthetic, then do it. It's your car. I've used dino, blends and synthetics in classic cars (from 3X8s to a Triumph TR3 and old American V8 cars) with no noticeable difference in anything.

 

You will never get a definitive answer. Everyone has a favorite brand.

Redline seems to be popular. I run 10W40 in my 308 and have no complaints.

 

Discussing/debating oil brands is like discussing politics or religion.

 

+1

The fact of the matter is you need an oil that properly lubricates your engine and protects the internal parts. Most modern oils are SM rated and have less ZDDP of a SJ rated oil. On a shim type motor ZDDP is vital to protect the cam lobes. If you take a look at Honda motorcycles they specify oils rated not higher than SJ.

Recently I had a customer that was complaining that he was losing motors on his new Honda ATV's while his old Honda 300's were still going strong. After discussing to him the differences between those 2 engines (OHC pressure lubed) 300cc and (Splash and spray lubed push rod engine) 420cc. He did not buy my explanation of why he needed to use SJ rated oils. Even his oil supplier told him that I was full of crap.

The customer sent one of his failed cams to Shell oil. Shell sent back the cam to him 2 weeks later along with a letter telling him that after study of the cams damage that he should stop using Rotella T in his ATV's as it did not provide to protection the engine needed.

 

I've used AmsOil products since the 70s. They have a product designed for flat-tappet engines.

It comes in 10W-40 and 20w-50 weights.

http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/amo.aspx

 

Mobil 1 5W-50 for my Merak. Correct ZDDP levels and fully synthetic. Approved for the new 2011 Porsches.

Ciao,
George

 

That product doesn't seem to be widely available. I've never seen it here.

 

ZDDP is a big thing right now, but mostly because there have been a bunch of email forward scare letters sent around.

Your wear is not due to a lack of ZDDP. You'd see wear in more than one place. As I mentioned before -- all pieces of a car have a certain failure rate. In modern vehicles, the rate of failure and the time period for failure is pretty well known. In hand-built vehicles, it's more of a "wait and see" data collection. Sometimes you're the Louisville Slugger, sometimes you're the ball. This time, you got a car with a bad set of parts leading to wear on one cam lobe.

It's easy to get freaked out on the BIG Z issue, and I've had dozens of my readers ask me about it and say that they've all gone to additives and synthetics in their classics -- ranging from exotics to low-compression 1950-1970s American cars, most of which cover less than 1000 per year.

Using a high-Z synthetic is fine and certainly won't hurt the engine. It might even be marginally better for your GT4, but it probably won't prevent any issues any better than any good oil. As for Castrol, there are plenty of specialty car mechanics who tear into engines every day and swear by it. Then again, there are people who swear that Jesus is God to people who swear Allah is God to people who swear Buddah is the one to people who swear all the folks are crazy because they know there is no God and that Microsoft is better than Mac and Unix...

 

For classic Ferraris, you can't beat Brad Penn oils in IMHO...they have the ZDDP-zinc and phosphorous content of the the original Kendall GT with the modern benefits of a synthetic blend...www.bradpennracing.com ...I've used it in my BB512i for years.

 

Between RedLine and AmsOil, you can pretty much flip a coin. Unless you have a particular special lubrication issues to be addressed, <in all proctical measures> the modern synthetics are essentially interchangible.

As to the synthetics causing leaks. This may have been the case back in 1970-1980 as diesters were just comming on line. Modern diester base stocks are blended with modern PolyAlfaOlefin base stocks (about 4:1 typically) to make synthetic base stocks oils that neither leak nor cause seal swelling. This is an historical issue that has been eliminated. {As always an oil of the correct weight is required to avoid leaks and protect moving parts.}

As to ZDDP levels below 1100 ppm Zinc--be afraid--not so afraid as to riot in the streets, but the older cam mechanicals need something and ZDDP use to be it, some moly compounds and other metalic compounds have been added/tried, but the verdict on 30 year old engines is not yet in. For 30 YO racing engines it is very much in--the SM oils suck and the SN oils are expected to be worse. Modern engines have had parts hardened, made from materials not available 30 years ago, friction reducting coatings applied, and rollerized valve trains that don't need as robust an oil in these departments. This is the application these low ZDDP oils were designed for--not your 30 YO engine. In other respects, the modern oils are superior to their SL are earlier predicessors. ZDDP can be obtained in GM engien oil suppliment.

Given a choice, I would use an SL oil (after purusal of the MDS data fro HTHS and zinc+phosporous) over an SM or SN oil.

Racing oils may have the ZDDP one desires, but generally back down on the detergents, acid neutralizers, and other parts of the additive package to concentrate on the one thing racing engine do--run hard. Racing oils are fine for cars that get 4 oil changes per year and are used at least once a week, and bad for garage queens. Also note, more than 1200 ppm of zinc (of the ZDDP) can lead to deposits. So in one sense, we are caught between too little (less than 900 ppm) and too much (more than 1200 ppm).

ZDDP is being reduced because it has been associated with the slow death of catalitic converters. Manufactures are complient because they hold the warantee on emissions for 120K miles. Manufactures want you (the customer) to be happy as punch until the car dies, but anything beyond the warantee period is not necessarily good for their business. But you have to ask yourself, do I want to save my Cat and let the engine die, or the other way arround.

 

Amen ...

 

This oil should available at your Porsche dealers. The Atlanta Porsche dealers have just recently stocked up on it. The Ford dealers sell MotorCraft full synthetic 5W-50 oil as well. I do not know what ZDDP levels that oil has.

ZDDP is the last [emergency] protective barrier when the oil film shears in your engine. If you are one of the people who relines your engine, you want ZDDP no matter what the age of the vehicle. If you stay under the redline, ZDDP is probably a non issue.

When I went over the redline by 800-900 RPM because the throttle pedal inadvertently snagged the floor mat, I was very happy I had ZDDP in my corner.

Ciao,
George

 

One thing I know about Amsoil is that NASA uses them.

 

Would that be Amsoil as in Amway? Anyone who markets cleaners and oils can't be all bad.

Ciao,
George

 

Amsoil as in Amatuzio, the founder of the company.

No relation that I'm aware of with Amway.

 

Other than the marketing aspect of it.

 

This issue about the oils on the market today have been going on for some time now. there is a lot of misinformation out there. I don't know what to believe. One of the issues about reduced levels of ZDDP was when a brand new camshaft and followers was installed, that is when some camshafts and lifters galled. After the cam was broken in with run time, supposedly the issue was over. Who knows. Also that some of the push rod motors camshafts were made in China and reportedly were blaming the oil on poor quality and workmanship, or too stiff valve springs. Many of the new generation motors are using roller lifters and don't have a big camshaft problem. But some of the Japanese DOHC engines (Honda)use rocker arms without rollers. I hope my1987 TR with 4 smaller valves does not have stiff valve springs. and the cam was broken in 23 years ago. Maybe we are just paranoid because these parts for these cars are so expensive. I do want the best for my sweet 12 cylinder red head.


Ago

 

Take a look at Motul, its the only oil I use in my old toys. Skip the motul.com website, its one of the worst websites on the entire web.

They have both dino oil and synthetic, if you get the classic car formula it will have all the ZDDP you want/need and even some newer additives they claim are good. Kind of hard to find a place that sells it but there is one in Santa Barbara and I assume at least one in Ventura/Oxnard. I usually buy my years supply at Laguna Seca Historics in August and have them ship it down (they usually have a good price up there). A years supply for me is 2 oil changes and one gearbox and rear axle change so its not that much that I can't get it here but its just convenient since I am up there anyway. Mail order places are usually motorcycle related for them to carry it.

At work now but I think this is the guy that sells it at the Laguna Seca http://www.motorspotstore.com/mocloilsae50.html