News

Red Bull F1

Discussion in 'F1' started by NEP, Apr 18, 2018.

  1. jgonzalesm6

    jgonzalesm6 F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Oct 31, 2016
    11,752
    Corpus Christi, Tx.
    Full Name:
    Joe R Gonzales
    [AMuS]

    F1 commission to vote on engine freeze after 2022 in Feb. 11 meeting. Next engine set to be introduced a year earlier in 2025. Ongoing discussions on how to balance (equalize) bigger performance differences (>2%) during freeze period.




    "Negotiations with Red Bull/Honda were not that easy. Honda wanted to make sure that data/design details would not be passed on future engine partners. They heard that Audi is interested in joining F1 as of 2025. A collaboration with Red Bull is therefore an obvious choice."
     
  2. To remove this ad click here.

  3. DF1

    DF1 F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 10, 2007
    19,990
    BaWü
    No no no! No freeze. Domencali is wrong. Redbull need to be a team now and accept their new reality! Redbull chose this path!

    https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/154914/domenicali-urges-support-on-red-bull-engine-freeze-call

    Formula 1 CEO Stefano Domenicali has urged teams to back Red Bull's call for an engine freeze for the good of the series, ahead of a crunch meeting next week.

    Red Bull is hoping to take over the Honda engine project from the end of this year, following the Japanese manufacturer's decision to pull out of F1.

    However, Red Bull is clear that it can only carry on running the Honda power units if a development freeze is imposed.

    That is because the Milton Keynes-based outfit cannot afford to match the kind of development budgets that manufacturers like Mercedes, Ferrari and Renault can pump in to improving their power units.

    Calls for an engine freeze have not been met with universal approval, however, with Renault in particular not keen as it is scheduled to introduce a new power unit for the start of 2022.

    It made the decision on the timing of that upgrade after Red Bull rejected the French manufacturer's previous call for a freeze to come into play at the time.

    The engine freeze matter is up for discussion at a meeting of the F1 Commission on 11 February, with the outcome of the vote on the matter potentially key to Red Bull's long-term future in the sport.

    Domenicali, who took over from Chase Carey as CEO of F1 at the start of this year, is eager for the freeze to get pushed through.
     
  4. ingegnere

    ingegnere F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Sep 12, 2004
    3,024
    Montreal
    What’s the point of F1 if everything is frozen? Just lock in all the current top teams’ advantages and other teams’ shortcomings?

    I understand that it’s expensive but then if you can’t afford F1, go play chess instead.
     
    stavura, Picchu88, 375+ and 4 others like this.
  5. ingegnere

    ingegnere F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Sep 12, 2004
    3,024
    Montreal
    Why F1's first success handicap could be revolutionary

    https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/154925/why-f1-first-success-handicap-could-be-revolutionary


    2021 ATR Testing Limits (1 January-30 June)

    1. Mercedes: 90%
    2. Red Bull: 92.5%
    3. McLaren: 95%
    4. Aston Martin: 97.5%
    5. Alpine: 100%
    6. Ferrari: 102.5%
    7. AlphaTauri: 105%
    8. Alfa Romeo: 107.5%
    9. Haas: 110%
    10. Williams: 112.5%


    This almost makes sense. In this case maybe a smaller team with less efficient testing capabilities can spend more time to overcome the inefficiencies (and performance gap), the differences between tiers is subtle and there is NO freeze—so room for development. So, why does engine development have to be frozen?

    I’m not a fan of tokens or an overly regulated sport but it’s still better than full-out rule freezes. Might as well be a spec series then.
     
  6. 635CSI

    635CSI Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 26, 2013
    2,184
    London UK
    Full Name:
    Graham
    As I understand it Merc have the best engine. Our 2021 maybe better than our 2020 engine , but one expects Mercedes have not been idle. If we freeze now are we not just locking in a performance deficit?
    Also Horner was the loudest complainer in the fuel flow row.....
     
    375+ likes this.
  7. To remove this ad click here.

  8. william

    william F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 3, 2006
    17,266
    England
    Full Name:
    William Denoyelles

    It looks like Liberty is pushing for freeze and more standard parts as part of budget cuts to obtain the cheap show they want.
    They are steering F1 to become a half-way specs series.
     
  9. william

    william F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 3, 2006
    17,266
    England
    Full Name:
    William Denoyelles
    Success handicap is not what F1 is all about.

    Given a set of rules, the best team should be allowed to be rewarded for its effort, not penalised.
     
    ingegnere and DF1 like this.
  10. Simon^2

    Simon^2 F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 17, 2005
    11,989
    At Sea Level
    And teams that are behind should be allowed to work hard, test, and possibly improve.

    The biggest problem with current F1 is the WCC winner is known at the conclusion of the first race weekend.
     
    635CSI, 375+ and SimCity3 like this.
  11. william

    william F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 3, 2006
    17,266
    England
    Full Name:
    William Denoyelles
    It's quite normal that the best team dominates, and it's up to the others to catch up.

    It's the same in any sport.
     
  12. To remove this ad click here.

  13. Simon^2

    Simon^2 F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 17, 2005
    11,989
    At Sea Level
    I can not think of another sport than bans practice...
     
  14. vinuneuro

    vinuneuro F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    May 6, 2007
    2,544
    Chicago
    Full Name:
    Vig
    I must have missed it in the article..why does RB get more testing and wind tunnel hours than McLaren???
     
  15. Ferris Bueller

    Ferris Bueller Formula 3

    Mar 23, 2004
    1,731
    New Jersey
    Full Name:
    Dominic
    I am so sick and tired of rule freezes
    F1 is supposedly the pinnacle of Motorsports
    They should be striving to push the limits constantly with new technology
    Apple is a leader in technology because they never stop R&D and bringing new products to market
    Why is F1 still living in the dark ages in 2021?
     
    william likes this.
  16. Bas

    Bas Three Time F1 World Champ

    Mar 24, 2008
    31,501
    South Pacific
    Full Name:
    Bas
    Mclaren gets 2.5% more than RBR....
     
  17. vinuneuro

    vinuneuro F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    May 6, 2007
    2,544
    Chicago
    Full Name:
    Vig
    Right you are. I still think RB when I see Aston Martin in F1.
     
    Bas likes this.
  18. Bas

    Bas Three Time F1 World Champ

    Mar 24, 2008
    31,501
    South Pacific
    Full Name:
    Bas
    I guess many of us still think Racing Point = Force India...let alone what Aston Martin is!
    :p:p:p
     
  19. DF1

    DF1 F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 10, 2007
    19,990
    BaWü
    -Same team for the most part
    -New owner
    -Different drivers - Focus story of the year possibly in terms of drivers and result vs each other
    -Underfunded but increasing
    -New name of a company that is on its downslope of late - Aston Martin is not a name of growth and inspiration with its lineup the last few years. Sales?? Dead almost

    -New paint and cloned car to attempt to gain attention and results on the cheap - Typical of a business/billionaire focus to minimize risk and yield results. If they did not literally cheat, face fines and points deductions, and started with the previous actual car they built themselves..........well we would not hear much at all. I have zero respect for them as a team. I hope for bad results and luck but hope they do provide entertainment for us here. Vettel yields attention and with that we have nothing but chatter about how bad he has been of late, damage to reputation etc. Well done!! LOL :)
     
    sammysaber and Bas like this.
  20. jgonzalesm6

    jgonzalesm6 F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Oct 31, 2016
    11,752
    Corpus Christi, Tx.
    Full Name:
    Joe R Gonzales
    Red Bull awaits decision as Domenicali urges F1 teams on freeze step

    Red Bull Racing patiently awaits the decision of F1 Commission for the coming week as Stefano Domenicalli urges teams to help in freeze step.

    After an apparent miss-communication with regards to a vote on engine freeze decision, Red Bull is set to get its answers on February 11 when the F1 Commission sits to discuss the matter along with other important topics regards to 2021 and beyond.

    As per the German publication AMuS, Red Bull is likely to get a positive news of a freeze – certainly with a compromise – as the engine regulations change is to be preponed to 2025 instead of 2026. It will help the F1 team to buy the Honda IP and compete.


    The report notes that this is only a temporary solution amid speculation of Audi finally stepping in under new regulations. It stated that Honda thought it may lead to its IP being shared with the German manufacturer via Red Bull but it isn’t the case.


    They felt, should Audi come in as an engine manufacturer, partnering with Red Bull will be an obvious step. The freeze, meanwhile, will come in from 2022, but it looks like the real application will only be seen in 2023 where F1 teams will use the 2022 version.


    They will also have the biofuel introduced by then. Should everything go as per plans, it will then by two seasons of engine freeze i.e 2023 and 2024. It seems like every manufacturer – Mercedes, Ferrari, Renault and Honda – will have a new power unit for 2021 F1 season.

    There won’t be a Balance of Performance system though, which is not in the DNA of F1. However, the FIA may have a ruling of helping manufacturers who are not within the 20 HP difference from the best. How they are to implement that remains a question.

    AMuS talks of two ideas where one is for the quicker cars to have higher fuel to use, while the other is to allow the lagging manufacturers to develop and reach around the 20 HP difference mark. More clarity should come after the meeting on the desired course.

    Amid the engine talks, new F1 CEO Domenicali urged the teams to unite in the freeze step, which will help in cost reduction and also pave way for the 2025 engine regulations. “For sure the anticipation of the freeze of the engine is a very important point,” he said to media including F1, Motorsport Network, Racefans.net, BBC and more earlier in the week.

    “But I don’t want to say only for Red Bull. It is for the entire F1 because, as you know today, the actual regulation and freezing is based on 2023. We want to anticipate the freeze because we want to save money to make sure that the manufacturers and teams can invest in the new engine.

    “And on the one side, that is a priority for a lot of the manufacturers. The discussions that are in place are going in the right direction. I don’t want to anticipate anything, but I’m confident that everyone will understand the importance of these things happening.

    “It is something that is at the centre of the discussion in that meeting. And I’m hoping that everyone realises that is the best choice, for not only for Red Bull, but for the entire world of F1,” summed up Domenicali.

    https://formularapida.net/red-bull-awaits-decision-as-domenicali-urges-f1-teams-on-freeze-step/
     
    sammysaber likes this.
  21. william

    william F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 3, 2006
    17,266
    England
    Full Name:
    William Denoyelles
    #568 william, Feb 7, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2021
    Sorry, but I couldn't resist: ;)


    JORDAN: LAWRENCE STROLL IS THE SMARTEST INSTRUMENT IN F1

    https://www.grandprix247.com/2021/02/06/jordan-lawrence-stroll-is-the-smartest-instrument-in-f1/

    Former Formula 1 team owner Eddie Jordan described Aston Martin chairman Lawrence Stroll as having “the Midas touch” and warned that he should not be ruled out.
    The Irishman founded the eponymous Jordan team in 1991, selling it to Midland Group in 2005.

    That team subsequently went through a number of different owners before it was bought by Stroll in 2018 and was rebadged under the Aston Martin name over the winter.

    After building a reputation for punching above their weight, team Silverstone took a step forward last season, earning their first race win since the Jordan days and only just missing out on third place in the constructors’ championship.

    “Never, ever rule out the father, Lawrence Stroll,” Jordan told The Race. “He has that Midas touch, everything he does he turns to gold.

    “He is the smartest instrument in Formula 1 at the moment, without any question.”

    The team have certainly been aggressive in their pursuit of success since Stroll’s arrival, and although the new factory has been delayed until 2022 due to the COVID-19 pandemic, hopes are high for new driver signing Sebastian Vettel.

    In addition to the four-time world champion, they entered into a lucrative partnership with IT giant Cognizant over the off-season, their new title sponsor.

    What has impressed Jordan though is the loyalty of key team members who have remained with the team since the early days and gone through the highs and the lows.

    “What I love about it is the loyalty,” he added. “Andy Green is there, people like Andy Stevenson – he came to me in 1984 or ’85, and his story is ridiculous.

    “I kind of gave him a rubbish job on Johnny Herbert’s car and then a better job on [Jean] Alesi’s car and then he went up on [Michael] Schumacher’s car. And he stayed there, he’s never moved, and he is now sporting director of the team.

    “That’s the kind of thing I love. I love loyalty. Andy Green, let’s see what he can produce, and what he can make – they’ve got the Mercedes engine and the technical collaboration. They will be very strong.”



    :p:p:p:p
     
  22. DF1

    DF1 F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 10, 2007
    19,990
    BaWü
    :) Next week Eddie will be opposite this and deny he said this ever above lol :)
     
    sammysaber likes this.
  23. SimCity3

    SimCity3 Formula 3



    A run what you 'brung would be better.

    V10 / Hybrid whatever...
    Fastest car over the GP distance wins.
     
  24. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    7,552
    The original CanAm rules were "If it fits in a box:: you can run it"
     
    zygomatic, SimCity3 and DF1 like this.
  25. SimCity3

    SimCity3 Formula 3


    Different engines created some epic battles. Alesi v Senna springs to mind
     
    375+ likes this.
  26. zygomatic

    zygomatic F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 19, 2008
    3,399
    Washington, DC
    Full Name:
    Chris
    Such a wonderful rule
     
    william likes this.
  27. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    7,552
    Which lead directly to its downfall !!

    It started out with 2000 pound cars with 550 HP with maybe a spoiler on the back and 3 years later ended up with 900 HP in 1600 pound cars (way before corbon fiber) and 2 sq meter wings !
     
  28. zygomatic

    zygomatic F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 19, 2008
    3,399
    Washington, DC
    Full Name:
    Chris
    true - but what a spectacular blazing comet of a trajectory. It will probably be the last time they let engineers and designers “do their worst”.

    as a long term strategy it is unsustainable. as a short term spectacle, it is unparalleled
     

Share This Page