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Red Bull F1

Discussion in 'F1' started by NEP, Apr 18, 2018.

  1. william

    william F1 World Champ
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    You may be right about Red Bull recruiting externally, but that doesn't make my statement irrelevant.

    If they can't promote anymore to F1 the new drivers they have groomed over the years in F3, F2 and Apha Tauri, the exercise is becoming pointless.
     
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  3. JStone414

    JStone414 Formula 3

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    I don't think its as absolute as you make it sound. Their pipeline has worked extremely well - 1/3 of the grid has been developed by Red Bull. They don't have anyone on the bench to take the 2021 seat to fight with Mercedes and develop the 2022 car. Thus they have stated go outside for one year so in 2022 the seat is ready for someone in the program. Their talent development exercise has worked just fine.
     
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  4. johnireland

    johnireland F1 Rookie
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    At this point, they should be worried about replacing two drivers. If I was Max I'd have my manager talking to Toto about Bottas' seat. I see no reason for Max to stay with a team that has consistently been unable to give him a winning car. If anyone deserves Albon's seat it is Perez. But that still won't solve Red Bull's problem of where to find a motor.
     
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  5. Bas Jaski

    Bas Jaski Three Time F1 World Champ

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    It's sad to say but I agree. I really want Verstappen to win the title with Red Bull but with the rules in place, their very obvious engine problem....I just don't see it happen. Even if F1 agrees to an engine freeze, the Honda engine lacks a bit of power and definitely reliability remains an issue.

    The Red Bull is simply not a good car, and if it wasn't for Max they'd be racing for 5th in the constructors at best. Even the strategy yesterday I didn't understand, and that's not the first time that Red Bull uncharacteristically made a too safe play on the strategy. Max was close behind Bottas, and Lewis trailing by 2 or so seconds. They where miles ahead of the #4 so to pit that early was bizarre. He should've let Bottas or Lewis go first. If Lewis went first he'd go on Hards which where quite slow, if Bottas went first he could hammer a super fast lap or two in and box the next one. No back up driver in a place to play with strategy sure doesn't help things, mind you.

    Max in a Mercedes. Talk about boring runaway races....
     
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  6. jgonzalesm6

    jgonzalesm6 F1 World Champ
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    Red Bull won't replace Aston Martin as title sponsor on 2021 F1 car

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    Red Bull has no plans to replace Aston Martin as its title sponsor next year, with the British sportscar manufacturer focusing efforts on its newly re-branded Formula 1 team.

    The two companies tied up at the start of 2018 with both a title sponsorship partnership and a technical collaboration on the Valkyrie hypercar project.

    As well as being part of the official team name, Aston Martin's logos appeared in prominent positions on Red Bull's F1 cars - including the rear wing - and on the drivers' overalls.

    But following Lawrence Stroll's takeover of the Aston Martin road car company and subsequent rebranding of Racing Point under the British company's moniker, it was agreed that the Red Bull sponsorship would come to an end.

    However, while Red Bull is hoping to add fresh sponsors to its portfolio in 2021, team boss Christian Horner has made it clear that it is not expected to land a fresh title sponsor just yet.

    "We don't have a title sponsor replacing Aston Martin for next year," he said.

    "We will have new sponsors that we introduce into next year.

    "Aston Martin obviously won't be on our car.

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    "We've enjoyed four years [in total], three years as title and four years with them on the car. We've helped to push the brand, and we've obviously enjoyed a great relationship with Valkyrie.

    "Obviously our deals were constructed under the former CEO Andy Palmer, who was always been tremendously supportive of the team.

    "And with Lawrence buying the business, it obviously was natural for them to exit. We'll look forward to seeing the Aston Martin name live on in F1 next year."

    Although the sponsorship deal is ending, Red Bull will continue work on the Valkyrie project, with deliveries of the car expected in 2021.

    Horner added: "The car is running, and we are doing all the testing. Of course the relationship goes until all the cars are completed through Red Bull Advanced Technologies."

    Red Bull has a history of linking up with major car brands for its title sponsorship. It previously had a deal with the Infiniti car company from 2013 to 2015, but that deal ended as a legacy of the Milton Keynes-based team's split with Renault.

    https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/154256/red-bull-wont-replace-aston-martin-as-title-sponsor
     
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  8. JStone414

    JStone414 Formula 3

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    https://www.planetf1.com/features/daniil-kvyat-deserved-better/

    Red Bull had the chance to right some wrongs with how they handled Daniil Kvyat’s initial dismissal. Instead, it just ended up being more of the same.
    It has now been confirmed that the Russian won’t be on the grid next season or, most likely, ever again. He’s one of seven drivers who definitely won’t be returning to their 2020 teams, and of all of them, the farewell he was given was the least fond.
    Sebastian Vettel was presented with a huge trophy by Ferrari; Renault made a custom Daniel Ricciardo mask to give him and have the rest of the team to wear; McLaren gave Carlos Sainz a piece of his car with various messages and signatures on it, and made a video telling Ferrari to look after him; Haas also paid tribute to their departing drivers in various ways.
    Kvyat has been part of the Red Bull family for longer than any of the above had been at their respective teams, and what did he get? One tweet, containing a sentence from Franz Tost thanking him for helping “to set up and improve the performance of the car.” That’s it.
    He deserved much more, both for what he’s given the two teams in the last seven seasons and for what they’ve put him through in that time.
    Helmut Marko and co are renowned for being some of the most ruthless operators in Formula 1, and that’s a reputation that came about largely as a result of how they treated Kvyat back in 2016.
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    His first year in a Red Bull was largely successful as he scored his first podium and out-scored Daniel Ricciardo. Three races into his second, he took podium number two. However, the team, clearly desperate to promote Max Verstappen, used his mistake at the Russian Grand Prix as an excuse to drop him for the Dutchman.
    In September the following year, he was dropped again, this time being kicked off the grid altogether at the expense of Pierre Gasly. When Toro Rosso needed a driver a month later after Carlos Sainz left, he answered their call without a fuss and scored points on his return in Austin. After that race, he was turned away again, this time for Brendon Hartley.
    Hartley failed to deliver in 2017 and 2018, Gasly moved up to Red Bull and Marko’s talent pool had dried up, so again, Kvyat was needed, and again, he came to the rescue. Since then, he has been the perfect driver for them, both on and off track.
    On track, he has managed to shake off the torpedo tag with mature, consistent performances and he even gave Toro Rosso, now known as AlphaTauri, their second ever podium finish in 2019. He almost added to the tally again this year when he finished an excellent P4 in Imola.
    Off track, he didn’t cause problems when Red Bull yet again showed a lack of loyalty by promoting Alex Albon instead of him – despite the fact that he had more often than not got the better of the Thai driver – but instead simply kept his head down and got on with his job.
    He took punch after punch from his employers and never once retaliated, staying far more loyal and respectful to them than they had ever been to him.
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    In return, they effectively ended his F1 career, and couldn’t have done it in a colder, more heartless way if they tried.
    The very least they could have done is announce to the rest of the world that he’d be leaving at the end of 2020 prior to the final race. That would have given him the chance to enjoy a proper send-0ff like the rest of the drivers in similar situations did.
    Instead, he had to keep the fact that a huge chapter in his life was coming to an end to himself, unable to share his true feelings on the matter, let alone make it a memorable occasion like it should have been.
    And then, when the chance for that was gone and the announcement was finally made, they couldn’t muster up any more than a half-hearted thank you.
    Yes, the world of Formula 1 is renowned for being one that is brutal and cut-throat, but the majority of the teams showed in Abu Dhabi that that doesn’t always have to be the case.
    Granted, showing some kindness and sentimentality isn’t required or necessarily expected, but showing basic respect is, and this has sadly been one of many occasions that Red Bull have failed to do that for Kvyat.
     
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  9. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

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    The meat grinder always gets its man.............
     
  10. Bas Jaski

    Bas Jaski Three Time F1 World Champ

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    Kvyat is an underrated driver and genuinely one of the nicest guys in F1. I'll be sad to see him go. As this article showed, he's a true professional as well that doesn't throw his toys out and cry to the media.

    He said something about ''see you in 2022''. Maybe he has something lined up for then already?
     
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  11. Bas Jaski

    Bas Jaski Three Time F1 World Champ

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    Yes and no.

    The RBR is difficult to drive. Gasly already showed he can't handle that. Why put him back in the car? STR needed a team leader and he seems to fit that role right now. With Tsunoda in coming, even more so.

    Perez is signed only for a year so far. Who knows what happens 2022? Gasly could still get that seat in the end.
     
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  13. JStone414

    JStone414 Formula 3

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    and we all assume Max is there in 2022. That is not definitie. Another frustrating season finishing #2 or 3 in the championship and Red Bull having to figure out its powertrain for 2022, maybe he skips to a potentially vacant seat at Mercedes....
    stranger things have happened
     
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  14. jgonzalesm6

    jgonzalesm6 F1 World Champ
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  15. LVP488

    LVP488 F1 Rookie

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    That's what may make Red Bull a contender for the constructor's title if they keep this performance AND Perez is close to Max.
    This year it was difficult to challenge Bottas on strategy because Albon was too far away from Max, but if Bottas has two cars to fight he may end up behind in more occasions.
    With the best car in the best team LH will still be untouchable for the driver's title, but hopefully Mercedes may be challenged.
    ... and Ferrari? I can't see them in the fight next year.
     
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  16. Flavio_C

    Flavio_C Formula 3

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    Kvyat destroyed Sainz on GP3.
     
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  17. jpalmito

    jpalmito Formula 3

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    With the budget cap, Alpha Tauri could be very competitive.
    Better for Gasly to stay.
     
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  18. jgonzalesm6

    jgonzalesm6 F1 World Champ
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    Red Bull: 60 per cent of RB16B is carried over from 2020


    Red Bull says its 2021 Formula 1 car, the RB16B, will effectively be 60 per cent of its 2020-spec package, as it bids to close the gap to leaders Mercedes.


    Red Bull finished a distant runner-up to Mercedes in the 2020 championship, though took only two victories, its lowest return since 2016.

    Mercedes began the year with a sizeable advantage though opted against bringing substantial upgrade packages after the mid-point of the campaign.

    Red Bull, meanwhile, made more regular revisions to its car through the course of the condensed 17-event season.

    “It’s not a start from scratch again because a lot of the car does carry over,” said Team Principal Christian Horner.

    “When we start again in Barcelona [during pre-season testing] in a couple of months’ time, is going to be pretty much where we left [in Abu Dhabi] with one or two upgrade on it.

    “It’s the first time in our history that we will call the new car 16B as opposed to 17, because so much, about 60 percent of the car, is carried over.”


    Red Bull closed out the 2020 season with a lights-to-flag victory in Abu Dhabi courtesy of Max Verstappen and Horner is hopeful the squad can carry through the momentum into 2021.

    “There are obviously significant amounts of carryover in terms of gearbox, chassis, elements of the suspension,” he said.

    “A large element of the car’s performance is aerodynamic and that can be altered for next year.

    “Our philosophy has been whatever we learned this year can be carried into next year anyway.

    “[Mercedes] are a very strong team, they have great strength and depth and we’ve seen that they have been bringing some components to the car, and of course we expect them to be very strong next year.

    “But if we can build on this momentum, hopefully we can give them a harder time.”


    https://www.motorsportweek.com/2020/12/29/red-bull-60-per-cent-of-rb16b-is-2020-carry-over/?feed_id=12972
     
  19. DF1

    DF1 F1 World Champ
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    RedBull are blind if they think that was a flag to flag victory. Mercedes are known to have used that race for testing new things, subtle but new. This has been spoken of quietly. Was more than a minimal drop in pace due to PU issue. In the press of course a few days ago. Certainly others are doing so if they can afford it.

    https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/mercedes-test-sacrifice-pace-exploit/4930906/
     
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  20. jgonzalesm6

    jgonzalesm6 F1 World Champ
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    Checo at RedBull HQ to get a seat fitting.
     
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  21. william

    william F1 World Champ
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    Chico shouldn't make himself too comfortable at Red Bull; I understand he has been recruited for one year only.

    The vultures will be circling above him at each GP, ready to pounce on him; Marko being the first !
     
  22. jcurry

    jcurry F1 World Champ
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    Which has nothing to do with getting a well fitted seat.:rolleyes:
     
  23. william

    william F1 World Champ
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    True, I was just mentioning the precarity of his seat at RB. ;)
     
  24. jcurry

    jcurry F1 World Champ
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    Here's hoping the seat fits him well.
     
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  25. DF1

    DF1 F1 World Champ
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    https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/154717/red-bull-push-on-f1-engine-freeze-not-blackmail

    Red Bull motorsport advisor Helmut Marko says the team's stance on the proposed 2022 Formula 1 engine freeze is not a case of "blackmail".

    The Austrian has confirmed that a deal is in place for Honda to continue to supply Red Bull's two F1 teams - Red Bull Racing and AlphaTauri - in 2022 and beyond.

    However, the arrangement will only go ahead if the proposed power unit development freeze is introduced and Marko has conceded that if it doesn't happen Red Bull will "drastically rethink its F1 situation".

    Honda announced at the start of October that it will stop its official involvement in F1 at the end of 2021, in order to switch its resources to new road car technologies.

    With Renault the only other obvious alternative as a power unit supplier, Red Bull's management pursued discussions about retaining and rebadging Honda's power units in 2022.

    Since that announcement, Red Bull has made it clear that if it took on Honda's technology it would not be able to pursue the usual development programme over the remaining cycle of the current power unit formula.

    New rules are due to come into force in 2026, although they may be pushed forward by a season.

    A development freeze from 2022, which would also allow all the manufacturers to switch focus to the yet-to-be-finalised new rules, has been under discussion over the past four months.

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    Mercedes has indicated its support for such a move and after initial objections Ferrari is also in favour of a freeze but Renault remains opposed, with discussions ongoing on how all four power units could fairly be aligned under a freeze.

    Marko says that the agreement with Honda is now awaiting the green light.

    "Everything has been clarified between us," he told German publication Auto Motor und Sport.

    "The timing is fixed. Everyone is in the starting blocks. But there won't be an okay until we have written proof from the FIA that the development stop on the engine side is coming.

    "We are waiting for the FIA's decision. There should be clarification on that next week."

    Marko insisted that a power unit freeze would be logical given F1's overall focus on cutting spending.

    "We have a cost cap," he said. "We are discussing a restriction and reduction in driver salaries. Only with the engines everything is to remain further open.

    "What's more, the trend is clearly for the new engine regulations to be brought forward to 2025. Unfortunately, this engine was such a cost driver. Investing even more in it now makes no sense."

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    He added: "For F1, it's a very clear common sense decision. The engine freeze is the most important thing.

    "The so-called safety net of alignment will certainly be more difficult. But if the development freeze is there, the whole project is already easier for us to handle."

    Marko made it clear that if the Honda deal doesn't happen the futures of Red Bull and AlphaTauri could be in doubt.

    "That would mean Red Bull would have to drastically rethink its F1 situation. This is not blackmail," he said.

    "For pure common sense and cost reasons, an engine freeze is the only way forward with these unfortunate power units."

    Asked if there is a Plan B he said: "No, there isn't."
     
  26. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

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    Helmut may CLAIM there is no blackmail going one--but that does not make it true.

    In effect Helmut has stated "Either you guys stop all engine development or we loose 4 cars on the grid."

    How can yo NOT call that blackmail?

    But at least Max will get a chance on a different team...........
     
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  27. SimCity3

    SimCity3 Formula 3


    Perhaps Alonso can extract some untapped pace from the Renault and occassionally mix it up for P3 or P4.
     
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  28. DF1

    DF1 F1 World Champ
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    I hope he has still this capability to gain more from the car than is designed in. He has shown this consistently. Ocon will not have so much fun if FA has stayed as capable as in the past.
     

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