Recall action PTU on Lusso & FF After reading the responses on my thread “Lusso design flaw“, it is clear, there is a concept fault on the PTU which is installed in the Lusso and the FF. One could ask himself why Ferrari refuses to solve this problem. I guess it is because: The next Ferrari GT models will probably have no PTU installed, because the PTU is too expensive for an all-round GT car. Today Ferrari tries to boot up it sales with less expensive all-day/GT cars and that is not a V12 with a power train unit like the Roma which is a very nice V8 GT but without a PTU. There is no and there will be no PTU mounted in a classical V12 Ferrari like in the superfast or the Tributo. So why would they bother to upgrade when this is probably a dead-end street technology. Lusso will come at its end cycle in 2022 and in total around 5000 Lussos and FFs will have been produced. Changing PTUs in Lusso and FF will be a profitable business for Ferrari as warranties fad away. So the PTU concept problems are a cover-up by Ferrari. The technical problems with the PTU are described by Chris king and FerrariErnie in my chat on page 18/19/20. They both opened the PTU box and repaired it by replacing weak parts with self-made parts. Chris King conclusion is that Ferrari uses sealings who wear out quickly or are prone to fail due to high loads and FerrariErnie concludes that the hydraulic fork assemblies are too weak to cope with high power loads. By changing these parts with better made custom parts, the PTU can not only be repaired but also be upgraded to a good functioning unit. This is a less expensive solution than an obliged PTU replacement by Ferrari which costs a staggering +30.000€ and most probably will fail again after some time. So if you have an FF or a Lusso out of warranty you will be much better off to send it to Simon Furlonger or to FerrariErnie in the UK. You can send only your PTU to them, they will repair and upgrade it. But still this is for me unacceptable because now it is clear that this PTU is not functioning to modern standards which a customer is entitled to. According to European laws Ferrari should do a recall action on the PTU. Everybody should know that under the hood of your Lusso or FF there is a ticking time bomb. Once you start frequently using the car in urban environment, you will be faced with a faulty PTU. But what worries me the most is that Ferrari still replaces dead PTUs with PTUs with the same concept problems. Myself I had to replace 3 PTU’s on my Lusso and 1 on my FF. I don’t want a bad repair / replacement, I want a definite fix, and clearly that is not the case today. On top, they don’t repair the PTU but force their clients to replace it and spend 30.000€ while they could as well exchange it or repair it as it is now clear thanks to the work of Chris King and FerrariErnie. One could call this shenanigan. Clearly Ferrari is only interested in our money. Last week I met again a Lusso owner, he has 14.000 km with his car which is 3 years old with a malfunctioning PTU and out of warranty. Myself I sued Ferrari Italy already for this matter, if anyone thinks of doing the same, you can contact me by mail “[email protected]”. I think the more people start not accepting this situation the quicker Ferrari will act to solve the problem by making a recall on the PTU which we are all entitled to. If somebody knows which actions needs to be taken to force them to recall please contact me or explain in this chat. Please understand me well, I am madly in love with this Ferrari car and if it was possible I would drive my Lusso solely, but it is just not reliable enough to use it as an everyday car. In the first 2 years I owned the car it was 50% of its time in the workshop all caused by a malfunctioning PTU. This is not a matter of hostile action against Ferrari it is about the right to have a functioning car to maintain the value and pleasure of our vehicle. It is about giving every Lusso and FF owner the right to bring his car to acceptable standards.
I'm not a lawyer, but I think that Ferrari is not forced to recall anything because it's not a problem involving safety. This said, If I were Ferrari , I would probably do the same they are doing now: who cares. In my tech opinion, all the 4WD system they use is a delirium (you drive a 2WD in 5 th, 6th and 7th gears): I think they will change it on Purosangue (that is the FF/Lusso replacement) Ciao
Too TTforced Of course it doesn't matter where you are from. Some countries have more rigours laws regarding car failure due to concept faults. Maybe best everybody checks first outs with his layer what the options are. We look afterwards if we group or not. rgds
FWIW Porsche finally admitted last week the Macan and Cayenne have transfer case issues and extended the warranty on those for 7-10 years from original in-service date. The transfer case has been a problem since at least 2011. Owners have been complaining about them for years. Not the same thing exactly but if enough people complain maybe they will do something about it.
I doubt anything will come of this. The PTU has been "mostly" unchanged for 8 years now. If Ferrari felt this was a significant issue they would have addressed it by now. The fact is that it only effcts a small number of owners. Its not a ticking timebomb, there are plenty of high mileage cars without it. Its a really big deal to owners as its such a expensive repair. I don't know how frequently a failure needs to occur before the EU laws require a recall, but I doubt it meets it. I need to update this, but I've been tracking the failures that are posted here and you can see that there is not a strong correlation with milleage and age. Best guess is that it only effects in the low single digit percentage of cars. It would be great if Ferrari would just proactively step-up and extend the warranty for these, or even better offer a low-cost repair kit for it. I rather doubt the former will happen though. The latter seems like it is being handled by the aftermarket now, either by GTE in the US or by FerrariErnie's group in the UK.
Hard to believe that a high tech behemoth that Ferrari has become would allow this to drag there name through the mud, on two models that have become daily drivers for the world wide Ferrari community. My FF 2015, my tech’ support at Ferrari FtLauderdale have said to a man to expect this to happen on my car , never tracked low mileage old mans car.
And yet one of the U.K. dealers has never had to replace a PTU at all! As I posted on the PTU failure thread, the failure rate is low. If GTE, Furlonger and Martin have come up with 3 independently different fixes then I would rather keep my €10k in reserve for a permanent fix than gamble on blowing it with a lawyer which might not guarantee a fix. If you think we’d get anywhere with legal action then I think you’d be mistaken. Look at the manifold cracking issues on the F430. Ferrari could have easily redesigned that part on a car which has sold thousands more units than the FF/Lusso - and yet they didn’t.
I agree but Ferrari did no get worldwide acclaim with there manifold design as they did with there all wheel drive design , Which they based there add campaigns on.
Following these forums myself. I have a 2013 Cayenne GTS and I've spoken with my dealer and others and before this, they had multiple t-cases in stock because of this issue. I'm sure there are many more Cayennes on the road (20-30x) than FF and GTC4Ls. Still, for a car pushing 400k they should acknowledge the issue.
Meanwhile, e9x M3 owners are still waiting...I had a blown engine twice on the same car due to rod bearing failure.
Only campaign from BMW I've seen was for the 4.4TT motor from the e70.2 models. Probably because they don't want to upset the suburban wife crowd and don't care about less e9x models on the road, or the e6x v10 engines that are grenading also.
Hello jaguar36, you can extend the list with the name Filip , he has a Lusso , 3 years old with 14.000km and lives in Belgium, he owns 5 Ferraris. Ferrari tries him to pay for the repair, he just passed his warranty, he is made as hell about this matter. The list of Jaguar 36 is far from complete. First, this list does not include most of the warranty cases. As for example Ferrari does not mention the PTU exchange on there invoices when they repair under warranty and very often the customer is not aware what has been done under warranty, it is not professional, they should do it. The fact they hide there actions proves they have something to coverup. Often they just refill the PTU with new oil while knowing the PTU is already damaged, they did this already twice on both of my cars, hoping to repair the PTU later not covered under warranty. In my Lusso they replaced already 2 PTU’s and one motor under warranty no official document was issued by the Ferrari shop. Also in my FF they changed oil and the PTU was changed without official document. Next one has to acknowledge that most Ferrari owners are not aware of the Ferrarichat website. There is just no place else for them to complain. I discovered this blog side due to the fact that I was not satisfied with this situation. Image that 10% of Ferrari owners are aware of this side, knowing that there are today arround 3000 Lussos and FFs produced means that only 300 owners have knowledge of this matter under the condition they check this website frequently. A list of only “as you call it” 15 complainers is already 5%. This amount is hugh and most probably higher than you know. Image Unavailable, Please Login Next one has to take in account that most Lussos have very low mileage. This is proven by just looking to autoscount24.com. For the moment there are about 150 Lussos for sale with a average mileage of 10.000 km or 6213 miles. The graph below is the average of the first 50 cars. So these cars are up for there ticking time bomb if there PTU was already not exchanged. Maybe that’s the reason why so many Lussos are for sale for the moment. What puzzles me is that one finds that a faulty gearbox is a trivial thing. This is a major part of the car and should not fail in these high quantities. Take in account that all these problems occurred with low mileage cars, means that it is most worrying and proves there is a ticking time bomb. Image you have a Lusso or FF how would you feel about this matter. In my car the motor was a total loss due to contamination of oil most probably coming from the PTU. Never Ferrari explained me why the PTU or the motor failed. There lack of professionality can only be explained because the want to coverup this matter. Has some one of you Lusso or FF owners received a proper explanation why your PTU failed. Ferraris lawyer wrote in his conclusion he can’t drive a car. If I was Ferrari I would address the matter swift. They sold me the car as an all-day GT, if they can’t deliver they have to take the car back, and I am sure other owners can make the same claim. Not addressing the issue is the brand unworthy.
Many Testarossa rear diff don't last long: no recall ever, but someone did another one with better quality that costs much less than the original that lasts ten times more. The same happens with this PTU. I wouldn't waste too much time with Ferrari asking what they are not forced to do, as almost every Ferrari model has (at least) a weak part (Steering rack for the V8 of the seventies and eigthies, valve guides for 355, exhaust manifold for the 430, "glued" plastic on 348 355 and 360. And so on) If you were looking for top reliability, maybe better buying a Lexus LS... ciao
HAH!!! Like how Porsche handled the IMS bearing (ticking time bomb) issue. Known design flaw for yeeeears. Porsche's response? Pound sand.
I am not sure Ferrari can not be forced to solve this problem. Look at the Volkswagen software scandal, this was not a safety issue and there are many more same cases scandal or not. To make this work it is about the number of people who complain. No one is obliged to take Ferrari to court, I understand that, I am already doing this for you guy’s so just sit and relax and wait for the outcome. https://www.nieuwsblad.be/cnt/dmf20190715_04510797. https://www.dhnet.be/actu/faits/frank-le-belge-qui-attaque-ferrari-en-justice-ma-gtc4-lusso-plus-souvent-au-garage-qu-entre-mes-mains-5d261170d8ad583996dde209 For me this over the edge. I reached a point of no return, and like always there has to be only one, the others can always follow the pavement. I don’t care if we win, this is about principals. If some of you are thinking to safegarde Ferrari why doesn’t Ferrari do the same with us. Ferrari could go for a repair of the PTU instead of changing the whole unit. This means they charge 30.000€ for a new PTU and they collect your old one and repair it and sell it back to another victim with concept faults. No matter how much I love the car I hate the attitude.
Thanks for the data on Filip's PTU failure. I have added it to the database. Just a couple of points of order I'd like to clear up. There have probably been 5,000 FFs and V12 Lussos produced. With Filip's failure added to the list, we now have record of 17 failures on this forum. The average age at point of failure is 4.3yrs with a standard deviation of 1.8 years. The average mileage at failure is 15,000 with a standard deviation of 9,000 miles. I understand that you are frustrated with Ferrari's response to a known failure mode but to brand all cars a 'ticking time bomb' does the car a disservice. I don't see people making the same claims about F355 valve guides and F1 actuators, 360 variators, F430 manifolds and cats, 458 a and Cali DCTs etc etc etc. Incidentally, the repair costs for the 360, F430, Cali and 458 failures can be as much or more than the cost of a PTU rebuild now that GTE, Furlonger and SS Autotech are able to rebuild the PTU Please refer to Chris King's post on the other PTU thread where he says that there are two driveshaft seals between the PTU and the engine so your diagnosis is not impossible but is improbable.
A very close friend of mine is a lawyer. He tells me that going to court on a point of principle always ends badly...
Hello ANOpax Between the PTU and the motor there appears to be a chamber to prevent oil going from the PTU to enter the motor. But as the seals are no good, hydraulic oil which is more liquid might possibly moves along the shaft and enter the motor in small quantities and moving dirt contaminating the motor which will destroy the motor completely. Therefore I would advise Lusso and FF owners to analyze chemically there motor oil regularly to make sure there is no contamination. this is the best proof that the PTU seals are 100%. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Please you should understand that in Belgium I know 2 case with total motor damage after PTU failure. My apologies but maybe you should first try to explain what the course of this failure is instead of neglecting this serious situation, it is just not professional to go for ostrich politic. What will you say to the next person with motor failure? I don't understand where this mentality comes from, there are always problems with Ferrari one should accept this. No there is a problem with the PTU and if Ferrari wants they can easly fix it , phone Kris or Ernie or GTE. And by the way I never go to court for money, i go to court because it is over the edge and to make sure that other people don't suffer the same. I have now a new car which has almost been completely rebuild , motor, gearbox front rear and flying wheel etc, One can wonder whats next. My problem is that i am convinced that the show of problems will go on.
Hello Anopax No i am not the US government maybe a small Piranha from Belgium. I am convinced if Ferrari wants they can solve the problem that is where everybody needs to work to.
Hope you are joking when you are comparing an environmental fraud and fake data advertising with a PTU that maybe doesn't last as you think. Relax and buy a 2WD V8T Lusso, that is the best way to solve the problem Ciao
Everybody who has an opinion on this thread is correct, so let’s all agree Ferrari is the bad guy here..
Hello Albert-Lp I am not only comparing with environmental fraud there are a lot of other examples where recalls are done because the product does not meet up with what is expected to. Definitely I am not going to buy a V8 Ferrari, in a heavy body like the Lusso. Don’t think it is a safe car to drive I think you can compare it with a boat, in my opinion not Ferrari worth Even the super boss of Ferrari has said there is no comparison between the 2. No no, I am very happy with a V12 Lusso with a working PTU and undamaged motor.
