Rebuilding a Dinoplex AEC103A

Adrian,

Thanks for the clarification. That's why it's great to have some experts on here!

Freeman

 

I sort of sacrificed my MSD streetfire unit that I had laying around to see if I could get it into the AEC104 casing. Seems to fit quite well, it needed a bit of machining and luckily I have a lathe and milling machine but otherwise a grinder would have worked as well. Bolts easily to the bottom of the AEC casing and enough space above it to put a cover plate over it.

Just don't know yet if a streetfire unit will be powerfull enough but I can do some benchtesting to see if it can reach 7800rpm on a v12. If it would work (assuming 7800 rpm means enough power which I don't think necessarily means that the energy per spark would be sufficient) it would be an easy rebuilt.

Edit: I also needed to mill out the original circuit board mounting points from the bottom of the AEC104 unit to get the MDS box in.
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Adrian,
I have not tested a Marelli distributor but I have scoped a couple of others and in particular have done a lot of testing on the Ford V8 points distributor in the test rig that I have. I have not found a problem with points until the rpm gets very high even with standard strength points springs. I certainly haven't seen any cycle to cycle variation of note even with a slight bit of shaft wear.
Points start bouncing just off idle and the amplitude of the bounce gets worse as rpm rises. When triggering a CD ignition that is not a problem and does not introduce any spark scatter because the trigger circuit ignores the portion of the points cycle where the bouncing occurs. At some point, and this is well beyond the redline, points will start to float, and that is entirely different than bouncing on closure. Once the points start to float, the timing can be very erratic and the points are under a great deal of stress mechanically. I've broken a set of points on the test rig when I allowed the machine to rev in excess of 15000rpm. However, points float did not start until 12000 rpm which is way beyond the redline for any normal V8. Distributors with cam lobe profiles that are exceptionally steep like on old British cars are worse for points bounce and probably will start to float sooner, but even they provide a stable trigger within the normal operating rpm range. That's been my experience and observation, Fred



The reason i designed the original Bosch retrofit for an optical pickup is that it removes the need to manage a points setup. Points tend to introduce flutter at higher RPMs due to vibrations and points bounce and depending on their condition and cam wear they can also induce a varying advance between cylinders. Another issue is the quality of replacement points setups available, sometimes the quality is so bad that a new points setup wear down within half a year due to the material used (and i refer to replacement setups bought from well known sources).

An optical pickup is probably the most precise and reliable pickup you can use for a distributor retrofit, i don't know of a single failure of a pickup in the Bosch conversions around (if installed correctly).

Happy Holidays!
Adrian[/QUOTE]

 

For those interested who did / is planning to do Adrians Bosch conversion, I made a chopperwheel for my dino distributor. I wanted to have it perfect fit so first I had one 3d printed. This is fine but then I thought, if this has to be glued in place with sealant how do I service my advance mechanism in the future without damaging the chopperwheel to remove it.
Then I had it waterjetted out of aluminum. After that I machined it to fit the s125 distributor in combination with the optical sensor. Made it in a way that I can be mounted using a grub screw so I can easily remove it and mount it back in place again.
The costs of having one chopperwheel waterjetted was about the same as 10 pcs. so I just had 10 of them made. Just still have to do the machining myself for each individual wheel.
If anyone would be interested send me a PM.
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Hi, I am in the process of converting the distributor for the Dino 2.4L engine to the optical lumenition set-up, and followed Adrian's advice to glue the wheel to the triangular cam. I used silicone so that I could take it appart again, but found that there is some play. When I adjust the timing, I do see some scatter.

I think the wheels you made are great, and make for a much cleaner set-up that can be taken appart when needed. Would you share/sell any of the extra ones you made? I have access to a small machine shop if there's any extra machining that needs to be done.

Great work!

Dario

 

Hi Dario, what do you mean exactly with scatter? Do you mean it does not trigger exactly at 60 distributor degrees? I think the original chopper should be good but I can imagine if it is not centered that this could happen. Did you check it on a testbench or on the engine?

But I have machined all the chopperwheels by now and they are available so if you send me your details by PM I can send you one.

 

Hi Stefan, I tested the distributer on the engine and I see that the timing mark that is on the crankshaft moves back and forth on idle and at lower rpm's. At higher rpm's, it is much more stable.

Thank you for the offer, that is very nice especially considering that I am a newbie on this forum. I will PM you to exchange emails.

Dario

 

Fantastic work. And 3D printing! Inconceivable not too long ago. Wow.

 

Hi Stefan, I sent a PM, but it did not seem to go through and even disappeared from my sent box. If you can send me an email at bassanid(at)yahoo.fr we can exchange details.

all the best,

Dario

 

There is a new MSD coil that is already painted matte black, the MSD 82023
Same as always just black
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/msd-82023?

 

Carlo Durante working on your car, RIP Carlo


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is there a rebuild of the AEC101 that is a direct plug and play using the original connectors? prefer not to run any extra wires.

 

Fred Winterburn installed his CD ignition into my Dinoplex housing. I haven’t installed this one yet as my original Winterburn CDI is performing perfectly (I think the first installed on a Dino). You can search my old posts to see the install. I don’t know if he is still building them into Dinoplex housings or not as it’s labor intensive. We removed the old internals and cleaned the housing ready for installation before sending. It is a direct plug in for the old points Dinoplex. I’ve now been using his system for years and am really pleased.

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I have a few defective 103s and think about rebuilding them with original specs. Does anyone know if the components required can still be sourced?
http://www.dinoplex.org/PDF/AE103_Circuit_and_Component_Diagram.pdf

 

Tobi you do realize that inside of the Dinoplex all of the electronics are potted in solid epoxy. How do you expect to work on components that are inaccessible?

 

Tobi, many of us want to retain the original points system on our Dinos. We’ve had great luck with Winterburn. When wired correctly, it plugs into your original plug. It works beautifully including your rev counter. You can either use it as it comes or have it built into the original Dinoplex case. Fred Winterburn posts on F-Chat often and is great at answering questions. I found out about it years ago from Adrian LeHanne, who started this thread back in 2010. Here’s some info on it:

http://www.capacitordischargeignition.com/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_discharge_ignition

 

The Winterburn ignition looks interesting. Maybe I give it a try for one of my 103s.

However, I'd like to remove the internals of the Dinoplex and replace them with the same components. A board is no problem to make. I only did a quick attempt to source some of the components and didn't find them. Maybe identical components or components with the same specs exist under different numbers.
Coils are also no problem since I have them already.

 

This is why Adrian is our ignition SuperStar here, he documents the original
http://www.dinoplex.org/#Dinoplex_AEC103

He gives you alternatives, acknowledges gutting this thing REALLY is a chore, and even tells you exactly where to drill out the 3 mounting studs blindly from the back side
http://www.dinoplex.org/#AlternativeIgnitionSystems

then compares your alternatives
http://www.dinoplex.org/overview_dino_ignitions.pdf

I chose the MSD 6AL2 model 6421 and could not be happier. It easily fits inside an AEC-103 and it runs amazingly cool. There is no wasted energy dissipated as heat like the old style electronics. On a long hot trip through California in August the case was continuously cool to the touch while the trunk was absolutely stuffed to the gills. I was worried about packing the trunk with gear, spares, jack, tools, and clothes for 2 weeks as there would no airflow around the Marelli, so I checked it often - each time it was boringly ambient temperature.


Then the throttle cable broke outside of Salinas and although I always carry a spare, it was 101F outside at 3PM and the pavement was even hotter as I had to crawl under to install it.
Much hotter.

 

There’s a saying, “A smart man learns from his mistakes. A wise one learns from the mistakes of others!”

 

I know Adrian and I also know that he is the #1 knowledge source regarding the Dinoplex - at least on this plant
I also know the alternatives and their pros and cons. I have working Dinoplexes and working coils for them. But I also have broken 103s and would like to have them working again in their original specs one time (no hurry).

By the way, I've also tried the MSD one time. It works great and the price is resasonable. But I've experienced a very strange behavior. It worked for exactly one day and the engine was running perfect with it. On the second day, it only worked for two minutes and it stopped me just when I left home. I never got it woking again, even if troubleshooting would be easy with just four wires. I've handed it on to another Dino owner and he was happy with it. That was the day I bought my first Dinoplex (my car was running on points when I bought it). And I'm happy with it since then.

 

Here’s some posts by Fred Winterburn and converting a Dinoplex 103. If you search “Winterburn” under F-Chat member “Fred Winterburn”, there’s a lot of good information. He may or may not be converting Dinoplexes at this time. You would need to contact him if he is.

https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/new-ignition-system.554581/#post-145438025

 

I'm curious, but what plant do you live on?

 

I live on the plant where a planet is spelled plant