348 - (Rear) Brake pressure stuck - not hoses, nor calipers | Page 2 | FerrariChat

348 (Rear) Brake pressure stuck - not hoses, nor calipers

Discussion in '348/355' started by Lifeboatboy, Jul 7, 2020.

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  1. Ferrarium

    Ferrarium F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jul 28, 2018
    5,624
    Central NJ
    Full Name:
    Eric
    Its stamped on the back of the caliper.
     
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  2. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
    Consultant

    Nov 29, 2001
    12,661
    San Carlos, CA
    Full Name:
    Mitchell Le
    That valve is a delay valve and while the system is stuck, removing the rear line would release the pressure, but ... that does not point to the valve being a problem. Removing the front line and the brakes are still frozen would point to the valve being a problem. However, i have never seen that valve go bad. It is used in almost all Ferraris from the lowly 308 on and never has one fail.
     
  3. m.stojanovic

    m.stojanovic F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 22, 2011
    2,743
    Malaysia - KL
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    Miroljub Stojanovic
    They appear to be Teves. If you have "Ate" in the casing at the back, they are Teves, not Brembo.
     
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  4. GTO Joe

    GTO Joe Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 15, 2013
    989
    Charlotte, NC
    Full Name:
    Joseph Troutwine
     
  5. A348W

    A348W Formula 3

    Jun 28, 2017
    1,741
    North Wiltshire, UK
    If you are struggling with parts the following is worth trying:
    1) Stephan at redbay cars;
    2) give Maranello Spares a call. They can and do source unavailable parts. You might not like the price; but you might get a part!

    Good luck.
     
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  6. Lifeboatboy

    Lifeboatboy Karting

    Sep 12, 2012
    56
    London, UK
    Thank you for not adding the unsaid “...you berk!”


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
  7. Lifeboatboy

    Lifeboatboy Karting

    Sep 12, 2012
    56
    London, UK
    Said like a true Sales Ops Mgr . Much like: “...although it’s theoretically possible you weren’t paid the correct commission, I’m respectfully disagreeing until you prove me wrong”. Hahaha


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
  8. Lifeboatboy

    Lifeboatboy Karting

    Sep 12, 2012
    56
    London, UK
    Phew!

    (PS: is that good? I’m kidding. Right now I’m doubling down on a 2 grand piece of brass, versus an 8 grand piece of steel, so frankly the callipers are kind of moot).


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
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  9. Lifeboatboy

    Lifeboatboy Karting

    Sep 12, 2012
    56
    London, UK
    Eurghhh... If I ever have to give those crooks in Egham & Chertsey another penny, it’ll be too soon. I sh** you not. Despite being the UK’s supposed prime representatives for Ferrari, I’ve personally experienced nothing but (and can recount dozens of others’) horror stories about their modus operandi.

    But thank you. If I really have no choice, I’ll at least give them a try. But they’re beyond fiscally immoral in my experience. Wa**ers.


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
  10. m.stojanovic

    m.stojanovic F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 22, 2011
    2,743
    Malaysia - KL
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    Miroljub Stojanovic
    The main difference between Ate (Teves) and Brembo calipers is that it is very hard (if not impossible) to get seals for the Ate calipers and it is very easy (although not cheap) to get seals for the Brembos.
     
  11. Lifeboatboy

    Lifeboatboy Karting

    Sep 12, 2012
    56
    London, UK
    Thanks Miro. They're the original ATE/Teves calipers (quelle surprise). I'll worry about that later.

    This morning we may have found the offending fault. I'll confirm or refute as soon as it's been tested...
     
    Qavion likes this.
  12. Lifeboatboy

    Lifeboatboy Karting

    Sep 12, 2012
    56
    London, UK
    Just wanted to update anyone curious (or for the benefit of anyone in the future who has a similar issue to that which I faced in the thread above)...

    ...it was indeed the lowly delay valve (134597) and brake regulator (136313) that caused my locked-up brakes, despite some feeling that was a virtual impossibility.

    As mentioned above, on Saturday morning (having sprayed WD40 overnight to loosen the joint), we disconnected the front side of the valve (134597) and it made no difference whatsoever. The calipers remained seized. Thus we determined that the valve and/or regulator must be the cause. To prove the point, we loosened the rear connection on the regulator, and hey presto the calipers loosened. We removed the 2 offending parts and separated them.

    Inside, even to the untrained eye like mine, it was obviously not right. There was a clear build up of sludge, like what I can only describe as akin to removing the drain from a shower tray. Ok, I'm exaggerating, but it was like soap scum.

    So yesterday my friend put both parts through his ultrasonic cleaner tank, ran several minutes of air through at a reasonable pressure, and then today refitted them on the car. The resolution was immediate, but just to make certain we weren't jumping the gun, we ran a full 4 litres of brake fluid from the reservoir at the front through to the rears. Even the colour changed as we put each consecutive 1 litre bottle through, removing any build up of impurities as we did so.

    We tested and tested again, checking everything and verifying that there were no other issues or doubts in our minds, but the problem had genuinely been fixed.

    We put the wheels back on the crate, I took it for a very tentative run, and held my breath as I gingerly tapped the brakes for the first time. Absolutely like new. The car coasted when in neutral, stopped on a sixpence when asked. As I grew more confident, I pushed harder - same result. And with that, we knew we'd fixed it.

    So for anyone rushing to fork out £8K on a Master Control Unit, £2.5K for a pump kit or even £1700 for a replacement valve and regulator, try the above before you get too excited. Worked for me - and I'm a very happy chap.

    And yes, he gets a personalised bottle of 18-year old single malt by way of thanks, because he'd just bounce me overpaying his invoice for a few hours' labour.

    Anyway - thanks to everyone for the help over the past week. I hope documenting this helps someone else in the future.
     
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  13. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
    Consultant

    Nov 29, 2001
    12,661
    San Carlos, CA
    Full Name:
    Mitchell Le
    This is the correct sequence of troubleshooting that identifies the delay valve to be the culprit. Disconnect the front side.
    It's even better that you can fix it with a sonic cleaner for almost nothing.
    Very nice of you to update.
     
  14. Lifeboatboy

    Lifeboatboy Karting

    Sep 12, 2012
    56
    London, UK
    Updating is the least I could do in return for the time, help and ideas that this forum gave us. And yes, I got lucky .
     
  15. Ferrarium

    Ferrarium F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jul 28, 2018
    5,624
    Central NJ
    Full Name:
    Eric
    There is was in post #13, cleaning those part numbers. ;)
    Super glad this worked out and you diagnosed it so if it happens to others we know where to look first and how to diagnose. Had no idea about that part so thanks.
     

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