Re-core original radiator or buy new? | FerrariChat

Re-core original radiator or buy new?

Discussion in '308/328' started by Tustin308, Feb 21, 2021.

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  1. Tustin308

    Tustin308 Rookie

    May 20, 2019
    39
    Tustin, CA
    Full Name:
    Arthur Trejo
    I need some help with a decision. I need to refresh my cooling system on my 84 QV and highly suspect that the radiator is not working at 100%. I say this because I did not drain the coolant when it went onto storage some 20 years ago so I suspect there may be some build up inside the core reducing airflow. I was able to get it running with no major issues however it runs hotter than normal. I can get a new remanufactured radiator from Superformace for $900 or should I send it to be re-cored? Anybody have a similar experience? Recommendations? Thanks for your help
     
  2. Brian A

    Brian A F1 Rookie

    Dec 21, 2012
    3,079
    SanFrancisco BayArea
    Full Name:
    1983 US 308 GTS QV
    I can’t recommend one way or the other, but I can provide a bit of information based on my experience which might help you.

    I had a minor coolant seep by the upper inlet hose of my radiator which I recently had fixed. I took the radiator to an old school radiator shop (San Jose Radiator) and learned a fair bit about radiators. “Brian Harper” recommended the shop after having his radiator re-cored there.

    First off, it is very likely your radiator is plugged to some degree. My car was running fine, but SJ Rad said about 50% of the tubes through the core were plugged (attached is a before and after photo).

    These old radiators can be taken completely apart. In my case, after SJ Rad disassembled my radiator, they were able to push a cleaning device down each of the passageways in the core and so was able to restore my factory radiator back to like-new condition. “Brian Harper” was not as lucky; the deposits in his passageways were more solid and could not be cleaned out. SJ Rad had to replace his core.

    If you need to get the core replaced, it is about the same cost as a Superformance radiator. My cleaning service was less than half the cost of a core replacement service.

    SJ Rad was very complementary regarding the factory core saying that it was extremely high quality. Noteworthy was the fin density of 14 fins per linier inch; that is the highest SJ Rad ever sees (they do several Ferrari rads each year). (Also noteworthy is how spectacularly heavy that darned factory radiator is.)

    In summer of 2013, the first summer of owing the car, I got stuck in an hour-long queue of stop and go traffic (it was a 7 mile queue to look at a large dead dog on the side of the road). Air temperature was 95F and my car got scary-hot. At the time “FerrariPilot” was arranging a group buy of aluminum radiators and I bought one. Soon thereafter I decided to restore my car for Ferrari Club concours judging so never installed the radiator. Aluminum radiators are an excellent alternative to the heavy copper and brass factory ones. I will sell it to you for a reduced price should you want to go that way. Just PM me. It is still in the shipping box, so I probably just have to take it into FedEx or wherever to send it to you. Let me know.

    Here is the thread regarding “FerrariPilot’s” group buy:
    custom radiator at my door!

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  3. Tustin308

    Tustin308 Rookie

    May 20, 2019
    39
    Tustin, CA
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    Arthur Trejo
    Hi Brian.....thanks for the great info. PM sent to you.
     
  4. Jdubbya

    Jdubbya The $10 Trillion Man
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    Dec 28, 2003
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    I took mine to an old school shop too and he preferred re-coring with copper core. Copper dissipates heat better than aluminum compared similar size to similar size. That's why aluminum rads are usually bigger than a stock copper core. Once mine was done along with a new water pump and thermostat I didn't have any more issues with the car staying cool.
     
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  5. kcabpilot

    kcabpilot Formula 3

    Apr 17, 2014
    1,527
    California SF bay area
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    Paul
    Yup. I went the aluminum radiator route and they do have to be about an inch thicker for the same performance. The only real advantage of an aluminum one is that it is much lighter but I cannot make any claims either way as to how they hold up over time or their long term resistance to corrosion. Also they do not say "Ferrari" on top. The polished aluminum does look pretty cool through the black QV vent on the hood though but FWIW I kept my original.
     
  6. pshoejberg

    pshoejberg Formula 3
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    Dec 22, 2007
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    Peter H
    Re-core it if you have access to a good radiator shop you trust. I re-cored my 1984 308QV 5 years ago and chose a more efficient copper core and never looked back ever since. I paid less than half price compared with new aftermarket rad from SF. It's important that the radiator shop do quality work incl. dimensional accuracy otherwise it's a waste of time and money.

    Best, Peter

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  7. JuLiTrO

    JuLiTrO Formula Junior

    Nov 2, 2017
    383
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    Julio Saiz
    Hi,

    I faced same situation 3 years ago. I got the advice of recoring and thats what I did.
    Cannot be happier
     
  8. waymar

    waymar Formula 3

    Sep 2, 2008
    1,321
    Northeast, PA - USA
    Full Name:
    Wayne Martin
    I re-cored the radiator in my 1982 308GTSi with two less FPI which increased the airflow across the tubes. Old core flow was poor. No more problems and still have OEM Ferrari top tank. I should mention that I also rebuilt the OEM fan motors with new brushes for $6 each fan. I have post on the fan disassembly.... easy job.
     
  9. 308Dadoo

    308Dadoo Formula Junior
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    May 29, 2010
    848
    Aliso Viejo CA
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    David
    I can recommend an old school shop in Orange that cleaned my core out and it’s run cool since. I will take it there if I need a recore some day.
    Let me know if you want the shop name and address.
     
  10. chris_columbia

    chris_columbia Formula Junior
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    Feb 5, 2008
    814
    Columbia MD
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    Chris
    I just recored about a month ago. Was like $670 with tax. The guy that did it said the biggest advantage of the lead and brass radiator isn't heat dissipation, but rather it's ability to flex in older cars as they are driven. Aluminum doesn't cycle-bend very well. Lead/brass do. He said he gets customers all the time that put new aluminum radiators in older cars and they develop leaks after a few years. Old cars aren't as rigid as newer ones, so this does make some sense to me. Whether or not it's true or just a promotion for his business, I don't know.

    BTW, when he pulled it apart, the old core really didn't look bad.
     
  11. steven_ew

    steven_ew Karting

    Apr 3, 2009
    107
    I doubt that’s true ... radiator just sits on rubber pads at the bottom with rubber bushes at the top.
     
  12. jlc308

    jlc308 Karting

    Jul 11, 2009
    120
    Irvine CA
    Hi, can you PM me the radiator shop, I also live in Irvine
    Joe
     
  13. 308Dadoo

    308Dadoo Formula Junior
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    May 29, 2010
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    Aliso Viejo CA
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    David
    Tom's Radiator & A/C Services
    828 W. Chapman Ave, Orange, Ca 92868
     
  14. Brian A

    Brian A F1 Rookie

    Dec 21, 2012
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    1983 US 308 GTS QV
    In balance, most aftermarket aluminum radiators are rated for higher horsepower than the factory ones. Most engine tuners replace the factory radiators with aluminum ones.

    The implication is that a well-designed aftermarket aluminum radiator would be better able to keep a stock engine cooler in higher stress conditions such as stop-and-go traffic.
     
  15. Brian Harper

    Brian Harper F1 Rookie
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    Feb 17, 2006
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    Brian Harper
    In our car that's true. I doubt there's radiator flexing to worry about. But the radiator shop's experience is likely true. In an older car the radiator is often hard bolted to a cowling support between the front frame rails. And very often right behind that radiator, sitting in between the frame rails designed 70 years ago for a 75 horsepower straight 6, is a newly built 300 horsepower small block V8. Both burn outs and frame flexing ensue. That's a very common American old car hot rod setup. The 308 has none of that.

    I did just have my radiator re-cored. It was more than half plugged, but what killed the core was some tubes that were leaking at the header junction that couldn't be fixed. It was less than the $900, but not by much, I think maybe $750 for the whole job. The shop was recommended by the local Ferrari restoration shop, so although I thought the price was a bit high, I felt confident I was in good hands.
     
  16. wildcat326

    wildcat326 Formula 3
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    Dec 10, 2012
    1,777
    Chicago, IL
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    Justin
    Personal experience here on my 79 this past summer. Had it since 2014, and - after a major mechanical overhaul - spun like a top on the highway, but got hot or overheated pretty quickly when idling or chugging along at stop and go city speeds. We flushed and bled the radiator twice, and it looked fine, per my mechanic. Replaced the fans and thermostat (they were questionable regardless), and still had the heating issue. Put in a Nicks Forza aluminum unit last spring, had a local shop paint it black like OEM, and car runs like new. I’ve puttered around downtown Chicago in traffic for 90min+, taken road trips across three states, etc, and the needle never gets over 195, if that. And I definitely feel the lower temps in the cabin, too. Unless you’re needing OEM for Concours, I highly endorse an aluminum version. Saves you a ton a weight in the nose, and cools incredibly well.
     
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  17. steven_ew

    steven_ew Karting

    Apr 3, 2009
    107
    Is the Nick Forza one the same/different/better/worse than the SF one?
     
  18. kcabpilot

    kcabpilot Formula 3

    Apr 17, 2014
    1,527
    California SF bay area
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    Paul
    #18 kcabpilot, Feb 22, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2021
    Probably not, I bought mine from Nick's and it's made by Wizard in Connecticut. It's possible that SF could order from Wizard and just have it drop shipped to you. That's what Nick's did but I doubt it.

    Bottom line - it's just a radiator and no matter what you do, unless you happen upon a hack shop, you're probably gonna be happy. The original radiator has a rather dense core and if you get it re-cored it's not going to look the same but, like I said, it's just a radiator, not rocket science.

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  19. Tustin308

    Tustin308 Rookie

    May 20, 2019
    39
    Tustin, CA
    Full Name:
    Arthur Trejo
    Thanks everyone for your input. It is great to hear your experiences. All if them have positive outcomes but I think i will have my radiator recored. Appreciate the recommendations!!!
     
  20. pshoejberg

    pshoejberg Formula 3
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    Dec 22, 2007
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    Peter H
    What ever you do save the old radiator in a safe place (I prefer to have it in the front of my car). The 308 is slowly but surely becoming a collector item and future buyers will appreciate to have the original radiator available (And so will yourself when you become an old fart like me;)). If the radiator is dismantled for any reason go all in and get a new core regardless. Cleaning / aciddizing might be sufficient but who knows have much live span there is left in the old core after +40 years of exposure to wet environment. Below is a picture of my newly re-cored 512 BBi radiator also performed with a higher capacity core than original.

    Best, peter

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  21. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
    5,828
    Isle of man- uk
    Nothing wrong with rebuilt radiator if done by someone who knows his onions. My rav4 rad leaked when 5 years old, after a rebuild it was still going strong 18 years later. The rebuild material is generally far better quality than the oem.
     
  22. wildcat326

    wildcat326 Formula 3
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    Dec 10, 2012
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    Justin
    FWIW, I recall several years ago there was a brouhaha where Nicks Forza walked off here as a sponsor because someone tried to out their radiator supplier, and they emphatically claimed Wizard was NOT the mfr. I later saw an uninstalled fresh NFF radiator on a f-chat restoration thread, and the mfr label was someone other than Wizard. I called that mfr to get some info, and they played dumb, saying “uhhh, we might have done Ferrari radiators in the past.” I know NFF gets a premium, but I chose to give them the business, and also was afraid of workmanship issues with some of these lesser mfrs of aluminum radiators. The difference in my car’s temps/performance is WELL worth the few hundred bucks extra.
     
  23. kcabpilot

    kcabpilot Formula 3

    Apr 17, 2014
    1,527
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    Paul
    Yea I saw that thread and I'm not sure what it was all about because it was quite a while ago. I bought my rad from NFF about two years ago and there's really no question as to where it came from, The shipping label on the box clearly showed it was from Connecticut, not Washington. I don't really see that as an issue in itself but was puzzled by NFF's denial that that was where they came from. As I've said, it's a radiator and mine works, running temp is a bit over the 1/3rd mark and at idle on a hot day it will get to the 195 (halfway) mark and the fans will turn on. Just like everyone else in our local group I drive the car pretty hard with extreme enthusiasm so I'd say it works just fine even though it says "Wizard" instead of "Ferrari" but honestly, unless you're on a quest to reduce weight, I'd say just recore the OEM rad and keep it original.

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  24. Brian Harper

    Brian Harper F1 Rookie
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    Feb 17, 2006
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    Brian Harper
    I read that thread where Nick insists it isn't made by Wizard and someone else insists that he bought Nick's radiator and it was made by Wizard. It's a weird saga. It would be ironic if that led to Nick switching to Wizard as a supplier, but seeing your radiator just makes the whole story even stranger.
     
  25. AZDoug

    AZDoug Formula 3

    Jun 17, 2009
    1,606
    Along the Verde , AZ
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    Doug

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