RB and why he is off this year ...

You did not read what I wrote. RB has consistently matched MS by folowing him in 2nd place. DC, Alonso, trulli are all flash in the pan and have a good day.

Current points standing:
1. M.SCHUMACHER 60
2. R.BARRICHELLO 46
3. J.BUTTON 38

If you are second only to the greatest driver ever in F1. How can you be average. Your arguements are false. Barrichello is a force in F1. If MS retires this year. He will be WC title contention and will probably win it.

 

I completely disagree... RB is damned fast. I think DC in the Ferrari would be consistently in the points and occasionally on podium... in contrast, RB is consistently on podium and more often than not #2.

I disagree. They wanted someone who could win WDC should MS get injured or simply have a string of bad luck (cars breaking or idiots driving into him).

You're referring to talented immature drivers. Only a moron like JPM doesn't realize that MS is a phenomenon and that everyone is #2 to him. So, the young and stupid will say "No, I want to be somewhere that I can beat MS." The smarter talented driver will say... "MS is #1 as long as he's healthy. I want to be #2. I can try to do that as Ferrari's #2 or as another team's #1. At Ferrari, I'll have the best team and likely the best car. At Ferrari, I can learn from the best driver in history. And if MS gets bored and retires (or gets hurt or has string of bad luck), I'll be in the best position to be the next WDC."

I don't think RB came to Ferrari to retire in luxury; he came because he knew MS was WDC until he decides to stop; and the #2 at Ferrari is likely the next WDC following MS.

True, RB is not in the same class as MS or Senna. But the next step down is NOT "average"; the next step down isn't even "above average"; its "great". RB is a great driver; not a legend, but a great driver. And much better than the majority of the other drivers in F1 right now. Far from "average".

 

I think you are warped by MS dominance. Finishing 1st in 4 of 7 races and in 2nd 3rd and 4th in the other three would be a fairly dominating performance pre-MS.

Second, keep in mind that RB is handicapped by having to take the 2nd best strategy. He can't go with MS's strategy (the optimal one for the car) because MS and RB cannot pit at the same time! In fact, Ferrari doesn't even want them just one lap apart as that leaves no room for variation come race time (yellow flags and what-not). If RB was allowed the ideal strategy, he could very well be straight #2's (#1's ignoring MS)!!

Ludicrous speculation. First, how do you know the Renault and the BAR cars are "heaps" slower. They may be faster than the Ferrari... but Ferrari has much better drivers. How do you know? Have you seen the cars tested with the same driver?

Second, finishing 2nd in half and 3rd or 4th in half is not "average driver" performance. Average driver performance is finishing in the points half the time and not in the points the other half. That's average. Finishing on podium half the time and in the points the other half is damned good. How many drivers have done that in the last 4 years? Very few. That's way above average. And RB is above that right now.

You're not making sense!

 

Again, that seems highly speculative. On what do you base that?

On the basis that MS is so dominant? That could be because MS is a phenomenon or the field is bad. So, can't use that.

On the basis that top drivers in other series are joining F1 (where there's more money) and are promptly beating the existing F1 drivers. NOT.

Da Matta looked pretty damned good in CART; not so good in F1.
JPM looked pretty dominant until he came to F1; has been pretty good in F1... but can't claim to be in the same class as MS. And it would appear we'd rate Kimi, Alonso, and Rubens above JPM... meaning any of those three may be fairly dominant outside F1 (highly speculative).

On what basis have you decided F1 is full of lousy drivers such that the current average F1 driver is actually a below-average driver??

 

Just guessing, maybe they had some bodywork off for that test.

Gary

 

Bodywork off & a transparent monocoque?

 

Ever thought of the fact that maybe M. Schumacher is better than Fangio. I am not claiming he is or isint. They are qual in my book. Also I never compared RB to Moss. RB is better than the rest of the drivers currently in F1. Comparing him to a driver from a completely different era with a completely different car is in fact my friend what you would say "RUBBISH"!

 

Making a concrete judgement on a team-number 2 driver like RB is difficult, and requires a lot of subjective speculation, but I can understand why someone could underestimate Rubens.

However, in RB's case:

*Rubens has to sit at the same proverbial dinner table as MS every night. Every race he is contrasted with the best F1 pilot to ever live. The problem with judging driver talent these days is that we are weighing pilots on the MS scale. Doing this is fine, statisically speaking, but as a result everone is left looking rather **** (most of all RB, because people assume that driving for the same team means having an equal platform)

*RB is not paid to be a champion. He knew this when he joined Ferrari. Consistency, reliability, dependability, faithfulness and loyalty is the bedrock of RB's performance. On each one of these counts he continues to succeed. This may seem unfair, not to mention demeaning to RB's integrity as a driver, but it doesn't diminish his talent. It does however affect how aggressively he can fight for position - when condemning RB's performance it is only fair to also blame Ferrari. But, after all, they are just playing to win. At least they are up-front about their puppetry, unlike a lot of other hypocrites in F1.

*When Rubens started at Ferrari he signed up with the premise of supporting MS and perhaps taking over the lead position when his older German teammate called it quits. Unfortunately for RB, MS has continued his success well into the twighlight years of your average F1 pilot. Now, I believe it is likely that both drivers will leave the team together, so RB's chances of being a WC are dwindling. I think he knows this and it has taken some of the wind from his sails.

*We don't actually know how much better the Ferrari is to the 2nd and 3rd place teams. What we do know is that MS can drive the car to brilliance, but it doesn't mean that RB has a superior car to Alonso or JPM. (Although thankfully he has a stronger car than Sato's front wing ) This all falls into the 'what if' category, as we'd all like to see what would happen if some car swapping took place.

I personally like RB, I think he does have what it takes to be a world champion. Sadly, at this stage of his career, his hopes of being one are looking somewhat slim. Being world champion requires the full push of everone under the constructor's flag and Mr. Rubino, as talented as he is, will end up retiring as a pusher.
RB is the worker mule of F1, as such he runs the risk of being unappreciated and underestimated, but an 8 figure salary package from Ferrari goes a long way in dispelling these doubts from his mind.

 

10 teams field 2 drivers per race, in which 39 Points are total awarded to 8 top finishers:
| 10 | 8 | 6 | 5 | 4 | 3 | 2 | 1 |

Average amongst those 8 who place: 4.875

or, if one considers the entire field:

Average amongst those 20 who race: 1.95

Regardless of how one defines average, each Driver's individual average is unaffected by place or race average.
1.000 is the best possible.
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I didn't realize some Ferrari fans held RB in such contempt. I always think of him as a team player and a great driver. Per the question: I don't understand what is below average about his season so far. A lot of other drivers I'm sure would like to be where he's at, although it can't be easy to be who he is. Like the old saying goes: "Nobody wants to play rhythm guitar behind Jesus..."

 

That is correct, sir - 10/10./10.00000 is the best possible.

For comparison's sake, same time last year - order is how season finished: next number is how many points these gents had after 7 races. Proof it ain't over until the fat lady sings.

2003
01] 44 [M. Schumacher
02] 48 [K. Raikkonen
03] 25 [J. P. Montoya
04] 27 [R. Barrichello
05] 25 [R. Schumacher
06] 29 [F. Alonso
07] 25 [D. Coulthard
08] 13 [J. Trulli
09] 08 [J. Button
10] 04 [M. Webber
11] 07 [H. Frentzen
12] 10 [G. Fisichella
13] 03 [C. Da matta
14] 00 [O Panis
15] 03 [J. Villeneuve
16] 01 [N. Heidfeld
17] 00 [M. Gene
18] 00 [T. Sato
19] 01 [R. Firman
20] 00 [J. Wilson
21] 00 [J. Verstappen
22] 00 [N. Keisa

Given time, determining a "lifetime" average based on "10" wouldn't be that difficult, either.

Your point hasn't been lost on anyone though - Barrichello goes into corners slower, and you think he could go balls off if he played pedals like a drummer instead of an old-school printer. (If you've ever used a 100 year old printing press, you'll know what I mean...)

 

I'd happily do either... for free... they wouldn't have to pay me a penny. And I would happily do it for free until they retired; learning as much as possible from either would be my "salary".

 

I vaguely remember some footage of a F1 car in the eighties going around Monaco. They left the front cover off and you see the drivers' feet dance on the pedals. Maybe it was at that occasion?

I think that footage became part of "Lap of the Gods" tapes.

 

Ha, ha, ha, c´mon, tell the truth.

 

Rubens comes from a very poor family. When Rubens was in his early years of racing his father sold the only car the family ever owned inorder to keep Rubens in racing. This is a true story. I have seen an interview and heard it from his mounth. His family is extremely proud of him. They are happy that currently he is in second place in the world championship and that he drives for a prestegious team like Ferrari.

His grandchildren will be proud that their grand dad has done so well for himself and the family. They will be proud that their grandfather drove a ferrari and played a big part in winning the Constructors Championship all these years. they will be proud that their grandfather was only second to the great M. Schumacher. They will be proud that their grandfather did not get bogged down by critics like you. His grand children will also know that their grandfather was a great formula 1 driver.

When people will look at the points sheet in about 10 or 2 years. They won't remeber whether RB was 1/2 a lap behind Schumacher or 2 laps behind Schumacher. They will remember for coming runners up to Schumacher several times, Winning the world championship (in the future after MS) and being a fun loving, passionate, and skilled driver. To say that RB is not passionate about his job... 8 figgures or otherwise is nonsense. If you want to talk about passion. Talk about a young man looking up to Senna as his mentaur and rising up from a poor family to become one of the great drivers of Formula 1. Now that is passion. Ferrari, his family, and we are proud of him and know he is a great driver. If you still question that you have certain issues you need to talk to an expert about.

 

Great post. When did Rubens start racing? I take it he first did Karting?

 

Rubens Barrichello's career was built around the Interlagos circuit. The Brazilian racer was born in the neighbourhood and from his early childhood days the Ferrari driver used to jump the circuit wall to watch all kinds of races with his friends. Even before the tender age of ten years, Rubens was racing go-karts on the karting circuit inside Interlagos complex. In 1989 he graduated to racing real cars, in the Brazilian Formula Ford series. After only one season "at home", he moved to Europe and in 1990 the European Formula Opel Championship title was added to his resume. In 1991, another title, this time in the prestigious British Formula 3 Championship, and Rubens was following in footsteps of countrymen Ayrton Senna, Nelson Piquet and Mauricio Gugelmin. The final step before Formula One, in 1992, saw Barrichello finishing 3rd in the International Formula 3000 Championship. His results were good enough to make Formula One team bosses sit up and take notice and he finally signed with Jordan for the 1993 season.

and the rest as they say... is hostory... this were the start to a great career of a great driver. Those who still have doubts Ruben's greatness need mental help from an expert about their own issues.

 

The winner WAS in a racing seat, but then he was deemed to not have enough money or not be good enough or whatever and lost it - remember that Jaguar driver from last year... hmm... oh yes, Justin Wilson (hope that I am right and not making a fool of myself, pretty darn sure though )

 

I don't think that's strictly true. It rather depends on how they came second doesn't it? Are you suggesting no-one remembers Stirling Moss, who was championship runner-up but never champion? Or what about Gilles Villeneuve? Anyone who saw it will remember him coming second in the French GP 1979.

In truth, Rubens comes second because Michael is better. Yes, MS gets all the support and the team is all pointing in the direction he wants. But that isn't by accident. It's because they know he gets the job done; because he works phenominally hard; because he constantly pushes to makes sure that everything is set up to give him the best chance of winning; because he has that ruthless selfish streak that you have to have to be truly successful in F1. Rubens is a fine F1 driver, Michael is one of the all-time greats. That
is what it comes down to in the end IMO.