"Raikkonen says he should be on top"

We criticize Alonso for whining because he blames every mishap on someone elses mistake and never acknowlages it might be his own fault. Nowhere in this quote does Kimi put his misfortune on someone else's fault. He is simply stating that there is still work to be done, and I don't think there is any argument that this isn't true (Transmission and cooling issues).

 

+1

 

Didn't he pass him as smoke was billowing out of Shumi's motor? I thought this happened after he popped it?

 

thats was 2006, they were discussing about 2005.

 

Oh, I see. I didn't know he worked alone...

 

'99 broken leg was MS's fault. He drove like a bloody idiot after a very poor start and tried to pass Irvine when it was never going to happen. I do not care what Ferrari said afterwards, MS was never going to make that corner. Watch the tape again, it was crazy driving.

'97 again was MS's fault for showing off. He did not need to pass DC, he was already miles ahead. He showed a massive lack of WDC maturity again.

Don't get me wrong, MS is very, very fast and DID mature into a WDC winning driver, but he is a better race winner than a WDC winner.

'94 he won because he bullied Hill out, after loosing control of his car. On any other track MS would have been out, retired due to damaging his car. On this track luckily he was able to smash into Hill and take Hill out.

'95 car was miles superior, a walk over.

'2000 to '2005 car was usually miles superior and he had his team mate acting as blocker.

If you want to praise MS, talk individual races, especially the miracle ones from '94 to '2000 ... one of the greatest drivers I have ever seen, but by far not the best WDC driver we have ever seen, that was Prost.

Prost in even cars with great team mates drove ALWAYS for the WDC and thus won 44 (I think) races when he had multiple WDC's on the grid.

Oh and that '94 season, MS did not beat Senna in a fair fight, ie. Senna did not finish any race of that season (if my memory is right) either due to mechanical issues or spinning off. A fair fight to me is both cars finishing. MS though was going to beat him, but unfortunately we never got to see that properly ... Imola was shaping up to be a cracker of a race. If the accident had not happened I bet Senna and MS would have lapped the entire field multiple times and we would still be talking about it like we talk about Fangio's 57 German GP race.

Pete

 

Tell me that this season isn't going to be an interesting one. You got Alonso in his prime with a new team and always in the hunt. You got Kimi and Massa in a surprize switch in position. Once Kimi gets his car and his team relationships working you will have a top contender. And then there's Hamilton. What a shock - a star rookie. Well, not a shock I guess to Ron Denis who has been cultivating this little "ringer" for 8 years. And lastly, there's the possibility that BMW is getting their act together in F1.

This is gonna be a great year! I'm hoping that no one or team gets in the rhythm of winning so we can finally have the show we've wanted for the past 10 years! I liked Shuey and Mika and Senna and Prost, but this year looks to be more entertaining.

 

It always amazes when people argue against Schumacher being the best by sayinig that the number of WDC's, wins, etc dont really matter because they are stats and dont tell the whole story, but then use WDC's to argue that Alonso is better. If you cant use stats for one, you cant use it for the other.

Also, have we all fogotten about Alonso's whining towards the end of last year, accusing Renault sabotaging his championship because he was leaving the team? Accusing his own team of sabotaging his season when he had a small bad streak? AFAIAC he is a moron, and I have yet to meet one Spaniard who actually likes him. Those I know feel he is an embarrasment because of his comments and actions.

However, he is a very good F1 driver and nobody can take that away. I guess he feels he can act like an idiot.

BTW, people who say Kimi hasnt earned being a WDC because he only has 10 wins. How many wins did Alonso have before winning the title? What had he accomplished?

Ernesto

 

Ferrari has said that they have some new developments coming in to be tested in Barcelona, and then used in the race. They seemed pretty optimistic, so this might play out quite well for us.

 

I meant race fight, and yes unfortunately these are numerous variables so we hardly ever see it ... but it is great when we do.

I will always only credit MS with maybe 5 championships, not the 7 ...
Pete

 

to me, FA is a good driver, hell...he's a heck of driver given for his age. but also, he's not a team player and big whiner when everything doesn't turn out right for him. there's where i lose respect for him.

 

Before any WDC won his Championship, he technically hadn't achieved much. But the fact is, Alonso DID win the WDC...TWICE...while competing against Schumacher in a Ferrari. The only other driver who can say that is Mika.

Not bad company to have, I would think...

 

Or none at all, if you want to pursue that line of argument.

Had Senna not died at Imola, he would almost certainly have won several more championships and countless GPs. Schumacher would almost certainly not have gone to Ferrari. He might have finsihed his career with no championships while Senna would have won 8 or 10 potentially and won over 100 GPs.

This line of speculation is meaningless, what matters is what happened, not what might have happened. What happened is that MS took advantage of the opportunities he had (maybe cheated a bit in the process) and won 7 WDCs. Alonso also took advantage of the opportunities he had and beat Schumacher to the last two titles. Everything is else is meaningless speculation.

 

I would agree with you, maybe only 4 of those MS chmpionships were in competitive years. Four is still incredible.

Using the same reasoning, that is why I only credit Alonso with earning one of his championships.

 

I can see that logic, but if applied, F1 throws a bunch of its champions out of the hall of fame. To name a few examples:

Phil Hill on the 156, Emerson on the ground breaking Lotus, Andretti on the first car with skirts, Rosberg lucking into 82 cause everybody else was gone, Mansell in the electronic Williams, Villeneuve and Hill and on and on and on.

And these are just a few that come to my mind, I bet the history is full of others. At the same token there are drivers (e.g. Moss, Villeneuve) who never got the title, but should have.

About the only thing I can say for sure is that a good indicator for a truly great driver is when he has won multiple championships.

 

+1 Well put.

 

+1.

Well put

 

+1
I also agree. If this season continues in it's very competitive nature and FA wins the WDC...then I will begin to respect him as a truly great driver. IMHO FA has not "earned" the truly great driver status yet. He is a very talented and impressive driver and like I said, if he wins the WDC this season, it will be very hard to deny him the truly great driver status.
IMHO.

 

+1000

 

+1

 

Had I started racing go-carts at 5, had a rich dad who could hire me the best trainer and track times, had the skill to win every race and got hired by Ferrari, McLaren or Williams then I would have certainly won several championships....if a frog did not hop it would not bump its butt at the time...

 

Sorry Ernesto but I have a very hard time believing this. If this were true and you indeed hold the pulse of Spain's opinion then why, oh why has this year’s race sold out? And why have the last several years sold out? I mean if everyone there feels he's an idiot and an embarrassment why fill the seats? Because they like F1? Hardly. Before FA Motor Cycle racing was king in Spain and F1 took second seat. Attendance numbers at the Spanish GP were no where near what they are now that FA is racing.

I'm willing to bet that this year the majority of the stands will be filled with people wearing and showing McLaren colors supporting FA as they have been the past several years.

Everyone screams about how bad it is for FA to open up his mouth and let it fly. But, if he didn't what else would we be talking about for the next several weeks?