R8 to F12

I owned three R8s when they came out (two V8s, one MTM V10, all gated) and while they are amazing cars, long term, I don't see how the F12 doesn't start soaring in value here soon. In my opinion, it is the best looking Ferrari V12, with all the modern creature comforts but still a raw, exhilarating experience and note. There is no way in hell the mid engine V8s from the same era should command a higher price than such a magical V12. But again, just my opinion. I do also have a gated 360 that I enjoy driving almost as much. It also has an amazing note, but it's just a different experience, being almost half the power. The V12 is just such a monster.

 

Not quite an R8, but I had an order in for a Huracan Evo that I ended up canceling in order to pursue an F12. I have no regrets. I decided from my research the F12 was reliable enough in general that I was ok not having the new car with new audi level of reliability. The steering wheel controls make the first couple driving experience a bit overwhelming, but once you get the muscle memory the car becomes the perfect blend of modern tech with raw monstrous performance. I love the car.

 

I have an EVO RWD (so very similar to R8) and an F12. You can't go wrong. I imagine you'll notice right away that the gears are longer and its much smoother (tamer really) around town. This can be good/bad depending on what your after. You'll also notice that the car feels much different in turn-in and how it rotates. Tons of fun though and great for long drives.

 

Never had an R8, but had 10 years of Audis and have driven a Huracan. Currently pace about 800 miles a month on an F12.

Quick thoughts before I log in for a deposition:

• Yes, it is useable daily. Good amount of trunk space. I have the "Daytona" comfort seat which is about perfect for my size
  
• Will both toddle gently like an MB SL in Sport/Auto or go batshiz like a Viper in Race/Manual (I drive it almost exclusively in Race, but not CT Off because it gets too slippy for my comfort)
• Throttle response is magnitude sharper than any Audi
  
• Budget $3,500 a year in disposables and maintenance, I strongly recommend getting a CPO with warranty as I've had some major repairs including a DCT unit

 

I never owned a R8 but if I have to compare what I know about R8s and F12s, F12 all the way. You are getting the best of the best with an F12 (design/beauty, handling, engine, sound, overall sensations, …). IMHO, if someone was to offer me an R8 or an F12, only the F12 would do (another dimension, another planet)

 

FF/F12 are always worth it. IMO the best modern V12 fcars, still got the rawness but refined enough to drive daily.

 

I'm your huckleberry. Put 35,000 miles on my 2017 R8 V10 Plus before selling it for the F12. I also drive the F12 and bought a higher mileage one (33,500 mi) and now have 38,500 on it. Definitely no regrets. To cover what you mentioned:

Power:

The 5.2L V10 feels gutless under 4,000 rpms not the 6.3L V12 I can tell you the powerband is much more linear and broad. The Gen 2 V10+/Huracan feels like it gets some power on at 4,000 RPMs then again like an accordion opening up at 6,000 rpms. The F12 just has more power across the board and comes on from around 2,000 rpms all the way to 8,500 rpm. Car runs to 8,700 rpm but you can feel the power taper off that last 200 rpm that doesn't happen on the R8's 5.2L V10 where you can feel it pulling all the way to the 8800 rpm limiter. Shifting at 8500 vs 8700 not a deal breaker to me lol.

Performance they're pretty similar in acceleration. The F12 feels faster but it's not that much faster. From a roll I can barely creep the V10+ (have friends that still have them). I now have a tune and cat-delete and can pull them much easier but we're not talking a monumental pull. The R8 can trap 128-131 MPH I can trap 130-134 MPH in the F12 for comparison in quarter mile.

Sense of occasion:

It's all Ferrari. I had an Ara Blue Crystal (aka look at me) R8 and I have a more muted Grigio Silverstone F12 and I can tell you the Ferrari garners way more and I mean WAY MORE attention than the R8 ever did. I'm in Florida where exotics cars are not rare and the amount of cell phone cameras, comments, wanting to race, etc etc etc is 10x fold.

Reliability

I've had mine since September and 5,000 miles thus far (I do about 8,000/yr on the exotics) and it's been mechanically problem free. I will say the German engineering is better as in you won't get a little gremlin here and there that I'll call "Italian quirk" in say the Bluetooth connection or other incidental things (PM me). A simple ignition cycle or drive the car for 2 minutes and goes away. That just simply doesn't happen with the R8. Both have excellent use of materials but with a full carbon interior on my F12 it's just another step-up. Keep in mind Ferrari get put on tenders when parked overnight. Never tender the R8.

Driving:
R8 is easier to drive hard the F12 is more rewarding to push hard. Steering very quick on F12 took some getting used to but it feels more playful on turn in and mid turn. R8 with AWD can power out of the turn better. The V10 sounds great but the V12 sounds epic (especially comparing them both to having aftermarket exhausts). The F12 just feels way more visceral. The R8 is almost sterile. It's too good and too smooth. The DCT is completely different in how they behave as well. DCT on R8 is like an auto. Smooth, creep from a stop, etc. The F12 is smooth just not as smooth. Also it's a lot more violent on the upshifts when you get on the throttle. The DCT behaves nice when at light throttle and rough (in a good way) when pushing the car. It's much more playful. Also stopped at a light take foot off brake car just sits at 0 MPH no creep like a manual transmission.

Anything else specific let me know. Here's the day I sold the R8 and picked up the F12


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That’s a fantastic post, that’s why Fchat rocks (members sharing with other members).

 

No it's not a let down. If you recall I have a Tesla Model S Plaid. That will absolutely wreck the R8 and the F12 in a straight line so I appreciate what the R8 and F12 do beyond the speed. Both feel tremendously quick otherwise. I'm just spoiled with Plaid.

Drive it like a 'normal" car in poor conditions and it's fine. I will say the mannetino settings do help. I mostly drive RACE or CT OFF and in wet weather get on it with those settings you will disrupt the rear end. Driving in WET in wet weather it actually does a really good job and can surprisingly put power down rather well. Just don't drive like an idiot in those conditions and the car is fine.

Can't really comment the 2017 USA R8 V10 Plus did not have magnetic ride. The mag ride is nice on the F12. It's more dynamic than say a Nissan GT-R but IIRC Ferrari outsources the mag ride from GM and I still think the mag ride on Corvette is the best in terms of variability from soft to stiff.

Stock not really. Tuned + no cat = yes. Now it's not artificial like the R8 where every single time I take my foot off the gas is it pop pop pop. This is more like poom BOOM if you actually get on it hard. What you will love that the R8 lacked are the downshifts. Maybe another F12 owner will chime in here but the DCT downshifts and the sounds the motor makes on those downshifts are way more exciting to me than the fake pops.

Valved was useless to me on both cars.

I just glanced at a video of me cruising at 78 MPH it's 2800-2900 RPM or so gearing is short like the R8. Quarter mile takes 4th or 5th gear if I remember.

If you can afford the car then buy it. If you are worried about it taking a hit and can't swallow it then don't. I hope it goes up because my Plaid on the other hand took a nose dive. It's unrealized until I sell it so it is what it is.

EDIT: Here's RPMs on the highway going through some gears to give you an idea. Auto shifting you can see it shifts at 8500 RPM which goes along with what I said earlier even the ECU knows power tapers off that last 200 rpm.

 

Yes I'm happy with the change. I had the R8 for a little over 5 years so I clearly enjoyed the car to keep it that long. I was actually really sad trading it in on the last drive and wondering if I was doing the "right choice." Only one other car I sold did I get that sentimental about (boosted meth injected 6 spd C6 Vette because I built that thing out to be a monster). Now that the weeks and months have gone by I don't really miss it that much anymore. It was a great car. The only really negatives I can say about the R8 is that it's too sterile and too smooth which was great for mile carving and daily using but not as "exotic" as some of the other cars out there like the F12. Lastly, more of a perception thing, but it doesn't come off as "exotic" as it's twin the Huracan or other F cars and McLarens and the like. It's an excellent entry level car into the exotic world but there's so much more wild stuff out there. The F12 is like a fancy Viper she'll snap if you're not careful driving it. Can't say the same about the R8. Go watch the Clarkson Top Gear review of it from back when it came out. It spooked him.

 

I agree with all that Nosferatu has said. I owned the f12 and r8 v10s concurrently for several years. All things being equal I would always go for the f12 keys first. Since the r8 was a cab, it was nice on perfect days to drop the top. If I was heading into the city I would often take the Audi because I wasn’t as concerned if something happened to it. It also felt a bit smaller in tight driving conditions. And the sound points he makes are also spot on. The Audi is kind of like the amg cars were the pops start to feel manufactured versus natural. With that said, the sound and balance of an NA v12 has no equal imho. And you can always tweak it. I have added 200 cell cats and an x pipe ro my f8 and it now was some nice subtle burbles and pops when I let off the gas..and that’s a v8 turbod gpf car. Lots of room to play w the f12s sound if you like…for me, factory was perfect.

and to Nosferatu, I was just fooling about

 

What you feel is the soft limiter slowly pulling the power, until it stops accelerating at 8700 RMP. It isn't that the engine physically loses power. But the end result is the same. Since peak power is acheived at 8500 though, there is no need to rev higher (actually there is, in order for the next gear to drop higher up in the power band, but on balance it is not worth is since the limiter takes effect after 8500).