Anyone have a R129 SL600? How does it compare to the 550/575/456? I traded its successor (R230 biturbo) that I owned since ~2005 for my 575. It was very fast in a straight line when the turbos kicked in but otherwise a sloppy steering mess despite extensive tweaks to sharpen it as much as I could (steering wheel, alignment, tires, wheels, bushings). I never understood how my landbarge LWB E38 had better, more precise steering then my old SL. My 575 beats the R230 in early every category except its not a drop top, the ride is harsher, and the upkeep costs are generally higher (though the 230s are a timebomb when the ABC suspension fails....). I only had a few short miles in its processor and the first impressions were not great...the steering/suspension is just as bad if not worse than my old R230... I always loved the look but the steering is really disappointing. Hopefully there are minor tweaks that can really bring it alive? (Mods: yes this belongs here as I specifically want to know it compares to the early Luca front engined V12s) Edit: I realize this sounds rather harsh but I want to be clear, I love the R129. It's styling and overall 'feel' as its much more classic Mercedes than the comparatively cheaper feeling R230. I just am trying to understand if I am missing something with this steering and suspension balance.
I had a R129 SL500, not 600. Pretty similar performance, bit lighter over the front, and mine had the optional ABC. I also tried many tweaks to get the steering sharper and the handling flatter, because the engine and general demeanour deserved it. But that recirculating ball steering is unfixable, the body roll couldn't be addressed without destroying the ride, and these cars are slow slow slow compared to a Maranello. I liked it but ultimately it looks like a sports car and drives like a saloon/sedan. The AMG versions including those with the Pagani engine, or rather the engine that was sold to Pagani, handle the same. Shame really. Nice cars in many ways.
There is only so much you can do with a recirculating ball, unless you have a Daytona. Lift weights, if you do.
I both understand and don’t understand the issue with recirculating ball steering. My BMWs have it too and they feel just fine? Perhaps a custom shorter steering box would help.
Yup. In the 90s BMW only used R&P on 4 and 6 cylinder cars. At least before 2003, BMW never sold a V12 with R&P nor have ever seen a factory R&P on a V12. BMW claimed it was due to clearance/packing constraints. I didn’t care for the E65/66 generation so not sure about that era but both 750 and 850s used recirculating ball steering boxes from ZF….I can take photos of my spare steering boxes if you’re curious. The E38 box is very similar to the E39 M5 box in design and better than its older E31 stablemate. Both cars benefit immensely from shorter ratio boxes. I tried looking to see if Mercedes ever made a shorter ratio box that swaps on the R129 but unlike BMW, documentation is lacking. I can’t even independently confirm if the differential can be swapped to a slightly higher final drive unit with LSD! Im toying with replacing my daily driver Honda Prelude with an SL600…but frustrated it will steer and handle worse! (Preludes did use R&P with double wish bone independent from suspension making it quite sharp) Hence making sure I’m not missing something and seeing if solutions exist.
I have a few distant miles in R129 cars a long time ago but Similar enough and from the same generation, Earlier this year I sold a w140 CL500 (S-class coupe). It was a wonderful car i impulse bought a few years ago. The V8 Coupe was a monster vehicle. Extremely comfy and roomy. But it was a personal flagship, not a sports car. It did a great job of moving in style, and handled better than a near 5000lb should, but nowhere in the same league as the Italians. The V12 models in R129/W140, had some more power and luxury options, but weren't that far different in performance. The R129s and especially with the M120 V12 motor are still special cars, which have a strong following, but are still meant to be seen in comfort over outright handling. Even the convertibles are pretty heavy. From a hobbyist standpoint, I was disappointed in the w140 support. R129 forums were more active, but still not many performance mods out there. Renntech, Brabus and some of the other well known tuners just dont support these anymore. Some of the stock parts, for an overbuilt car were getting scarce from MB. MAFs and many of the tech modules are NLA. Cosmetic plastic and wood pieces were surprisingly hard to come by. Convertible top pistons are all eventually needing service... all 12 of them! These were all heavy cars. Perhaps not as bad a Bentley of the time, but understated how components wear out and effect the driving characteristics. I did a full front end suspension refresh and rear shock rebuild, plus motor/trans mounts. It very much improved the ride and handling. Worst of all 97-03 transponder keys are pretty much unavailable entirely (for all models). More or less the urban legend is the vendor went out of business but owns the patent on the chips, and essentially no alternative is out there. MB, including the Classic Center, hasnt done much to continue support. This has been known for well over a decade. There were intermittent times when small stocks of uncut NOS FOBs would be found and entered in inventory, then it was a race to order as word got out on the forums. I was able to get a second key ordered. But in 2+ years of ownership, i only saw 2 times keys were available. Sorry for the long rant... these are special and fantastic cars. And from the end of the time when Mercedes truly overbuild their vehicles. Image Unavailable, Please Login
I have a residual fondness for my old SL500 and it was good to drive in a lazy, luxurious way per Mercedes of old. But while it gave the illusion of being overbuilt and over engineered, it was a bag of trouble including a cable fire, roof issues, ABC issues and other stuff, all common on these cars. My Ferraris have all (except my 550) been more reliable than this supposedly overengineered German car. A Honda would have been much more reliable. Still I have to say I have been tempted by SL70s and 73s as they pop up from time to time. I may even buy one one day..It’s a car of character. And they didn’t make any convertible Ferrari GTs during this era. good to know about the parts issues though. Thank you for that.
