I finally was able to take out my leaking clutch slave cylinder today. I have my new cylinder, but how do I get the old slave cylinder off the holder block. It looks like there is a circular pin that needs to come out but its jam tight in there. Do I need to remove this pin to take the old part out? Steps to remove it: 1) I tried to unloosen the 2 bolts, (13mm) from the driver rear well but only got the botton bolt off 2) So I removed the rear seat panel to get access to the top bolt and that worked. 3) once unscrewed, pull, shake, twist the holding block out of the two long bolts. 4) remove the brake line (18mm) bolt 5) have a bucket at the bottom to catch the running fluid, it was not that much to drain 6) remove the slave cylinder with block and clean it, put new one in Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Hi Mike: Just got home and saw your message. If you look at the outside of the cylinder where it emerges from the block near the boot, you'll see an external snap ring seated in a groove in the cylinder. You need to use a pair of snap ring pliers to expand that ring and remove it -- then the cylinder just slides out of the block. Not sure about the pin you mention, maybe they used a different method of affixing the cylinder to the block on your car (mine's a QV) ... but the snap ring is standard on all cylinders of this type. Sorry I don't have any photos, and my old cylinder is 50 miles away at the moment. I'll see if I can find an illustration... EDIT: Just saw the photos. (I read your post before I logged in.) So you know about the snap ring, is this what you mean by the pin? It is circular, and spreading the two holes with snap ring pliers will expand it enough to remove.
Hi Charles, we might be talking about the same pin, its in the photo 2nd from last. That ring pin looking thing but its not a full circle, I think I will need to take that off.
Right, that's the external snap ring. They are known as circlips in the rest of the english-speaking world. You need to get a pair of snap ring pliers to deal with this. I have two pairs from NAPA, I think this is the smaller model, I have a larger one as well: http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx?R=SER3150_0293962594 This unit is nice because it is simple to select internal or external and it it very well made. Beware of the Harbor Freight stuff -- suitable only for very small/light work. And the field expedient of using a screwdriver to try to pop it off is never a good choice (a ring this size would probably break if you tried that method.) In practice, this tool has two tips which are inserted into the small holes in the snap ring, then by squeezing the handle the tips move apart and the ring is expanded -- then you can slide it off while holding it in the expanded position. Installation is the reverse of removal. (Note that internal rings fit inside bores and the ends are brought together by the tool to allow their removal and replacement. Thus, the tool has the opposite action for these, bringing the tips closer together when you squeeze the handles.) I hope I'm addressing the right issue here... I think this is what your concern is.
I've had my clutch slave cylinder replaced twice in the four years I've owned my Mondial, most recently this February, right after returning from Cavallino. Clutch pedal was at the floor one morning. Nice seeing this write up. Definitely a design weak point.
Also, if you look at the photo of the new part you show in post #22, you can just see the groove for the snap ring between the bright machined surface and the boot.
Jay, sorry to hear this. I think the problem may be with heat degrading the seals, these things sit close to the manifold. Note that the part we're using here does not have the proper bore diameter for the Ferrari, but it is an excellent solution while you wait for a proper part or to have the old one resleeved. I'll post some of my research on this later tonight, I think the Ferrari part is the only game in town if you want the clutch travel and point of disengagement to be correct, but this fix is entirely adequate in the short term, at least in my experience. Note that I would not want to track a car with the clutch pedal movement that results, but it's fine for going to cars-n-coffee and I spent a good couple of hours blasting around the hills of NW CT this afternoon with no issues. Regardless of where one sources the parts, it is one of the easier things a do-it-yourselfer can do, and as you noted, these clutch slaves do seem to have a high mortality rate. Birdman re-did mine when he owned the car using some seals he sourced from Grainger IIRC. They worked for a few years, remarkably. Soucorp's photo essay should help a lot of folks.
Jay, the more I dig into my car, I see a lot of things that if I were to design it, would be much easier and better! But it is what it is, a Ferrari, everything has to be the hard way! You almost have to be a contortionist to get some of these items out. IMO, this car was made to take out the engine to do anything! Its a paradigm shift from your daily drivers! I never had any problems with the clutch/slave with my other 27 cars, has to be this one at only 24k miles? I was looking at the o2 sensor, do I have to take off the muffler just to get access to that, theres barely any room to get your wrench in there and there's a heat shield blocking the nut also??? Gees, this is painful, but slow as I go, I always figure something out!!! BTW, I will send my leaking unit to White Post for rebuilding while I use this temp one from an Alfa that Charles recommended.
Mike: Make sure the pliers expand enough, if I had mine here I'd tell you the part number. I think the one I mentioned in the previous post is the one I used, but it might have been the next larger model. They both looks the same.
Charles, This part (http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx?R=SER3150_0293962594) maybe too small Snap Ring Sizes : 1/4" - 1" Internal, 1/8" - 1" External. I just measured the diameter, seems to be 1.5 -2 inches. I may get a larger plier. Thanks. Something like this larger unit might work better. Snap Ring Sizes : 3/8" - 2" Internal, 1/4" - 2" External http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx?R=SER3151_0293962595
Well, if you look at what's easily serviced, you'll get a sense that these cars are close cousins to something that's meant for the track. How many cars can you change the clutch on without doing an engine out? (Or separating the engine and transmission for that matter?) Just making the clutch that easy makes these cars beyond wonderful in my opinion. But your point does have merit: The front bank, cam cover and so on is difficult to access on a coupe... we don't have that nice hatch behind the rear seats like you cabrio guys. And yeah, there's a lot of plumbing in there. Don't despair... if you get depressed about this, go look at some carbed 12 cylinder motors, you will feel very lucky! (Though those are indeed real works of art.)
Charles, I did not know the coupe had no back seat panel. So does the engine have to come out for spark plugs and valve adjustments? I do feel much better with my cabrio, thank you! btw, the V-12 512 engine is a work of art, agreed! Image Unavailable, Please Login
For those who are in the need to replace the slave clutch seal.. I can deliver again. PM me for more info. Guido
Got my new slave in but wondering how do I build up pressure because my Clutch pedal goes down to the floor and does not come back up??? I ran out of Dot 4, so will try again tomorrow with my wife helping me with pumping. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
The clutch pedal must have a return spring, #6 & # 28. You can see all 3 in the under dash picture. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
You don't need an assistant at first: Push the pedal to floor (where it stays) open bleed valve let air or fluid out close bleed valve lift pedal off floor by hand (add fluid to reservoir, if necessary) repeat as necessary until system is full enough to not let pedal get all the way to the floor, then get assistant to press on pedal before you open and close the valve.
Mike: If the clutch pedal is at the floor, you should be able to grab it and pull it back up, if there's some fluid pressure it will displace air and it will start to work. With a power bleeder applying a little pressure to force fluid through at a gentle rate, there should be no need to get inside the master and add fluid to it directly or anything like that. Note that with the power bleeder attached you're going to have to crack open the bleed screw on the slave to give it some place to go. But with a power bleeder, even if the master is completely dry, it will get fluid and start to work. This has been my experience anyway. This sequence of events should work to bleed the slave and purge the system. Note that this is how I do it, there are probably many ways to skin this cat: 1. Attach plastic drain tube to clutch slave bleed screw and place the other end in a handy receptacle. 2. Make sure there's some fluid in the reservoir, you don't have to completely fill it to the brim, but you want to exclude air to whatever degree you can. If the level gets low and you start pushing air through the system it's kinda self-defeating. 3. Put fluid in power bleeder. Screw pump handle on and give it a little pump to purge most of the air out of the plastic tube, then attach the power bleeder to the reservoir. 4. Crack open bleed screw on the clutch slave. 5. Apply slight pressure with the power bleeder, maybe 5 psi. Don't pump it up to high pressure, it takes some minutes to work. 6. Gently operate the clutch pedal, speeds things along. 7. When the clutch pedal is starting to feel good, look at the drain line... actually, it's good to observe it continuously while someone else operates the pedal... that way, you will be able to see the air emerging along with fluid. When the big bubbles are out, you'll see some minute bubbles in the fluid... you're almost done when you see this. 8. Air should be out of system as verified by observation of the drain tube, close the bleed screw. 9. De-pressurize the power bleeder and then disconnect it from the reservoir. Adjust the level of the fluid in the reservoir with a turkey baster if it's overfilled, or fill it to the fill line. At this point, you should have an operating clutch. I always try it with the engine off, just push it in and try moving the gearstick into the different positions. Note that since nothing is turning, the force on the gear lever is solely responsible for getting the gears to mesh, so it will go easily into some and not at all into others... that's ok. It should feel just like you would expect it to. This assumes you're accustomed to moving the stick around with the clutch in and the engine off... otherwise, ignore this. Some cars will have some residual air that will make its way up out of the master and into the reservoir after the car has sat for some hours... this is indicated by a drop in the fluid level but no leaks anywhere... this is ok... the fluid is just displacing air, gravity being your friend and all. Most importantly: Have tons of old towels at hand, paper towels, etc. I always completely fill the area below the reservoir with old towels so if anything leaks up there it will be easy to clean up. I don't think you have to go above a few PSI on the power bleeder, but check the literature. I've always found that a few PSI and patience works best. One other thing, this will be a bit of a chore the first time you do it, but it will forever be easy afterward. Charles EDIT: Steve replied concisely and accurately while I was writing this saga. My point is that, if you're using a power bleeder, it can do a lot of the work for you.
Thanks Charles. I don't have a power bleeder, but I do have a brake bleeder. Can I use this instead, maybe pump it from the slave bleeder screw instead going upward? Image Unavailable, Please Login
Mike: Is that tool a vacuum pump? Could you draw a vacuum off the bleed screw? Otherwise, per your question: Forcing fluid up from the slave should work fine -- someone else posted that they do it that way earlier in the thread. Sorry, I have no experience doing it that way. I guess you'd need a way of collecting the fluid at the reservoir.
Thanks Charles, I will have to play around with the different methods and see which one works. Using the pump I have will not push it up since its a vacuum. Mike
I installed the Metelli 54-0037 clutch slave cylinder and I am not getting enough throw to release the clutch. I'm thinking I will need to rebuild the original and re-install it. I removed the circlip but the piston will not come out. When I push it back into the cylinder and release it operates smoothly until it hits the end of travel then it stops abruptly like it's hitting something. I was expecting it to pop out when I removed the circlip. What am I missing here? What is holding it in? Bill
I installed the Metelli 54-0037 (Fiat) clutch slave cylinder, it works great. Still have my OEM part to get rebuild but have not yet. Don't be afraid to take apart the unit when its not connected yet. I manage to take all the parts apart and put it back together. The trick is you will need to use a screwdriver as leverage to lift the piston in position so you can insert the pin to hold it in place. You will need a vacuum to build up pressure and bleed the air out. Here are some pics. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
I have the Motive pressure bleeder, pumped about 1.5 quarts of new fluid through it this afternoon. I'm relatively certain I have all the air out but still don't have enough throw to release the clutch.
