Put a fork in Level 5 | Page 23 | FerrariChat

Put a fork in Level 5

Discussion in 'Other Racing' started by PCA Hack, Apr 4, 2012.

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  1. GuyIncognito

    GuyIncognito Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    Jun 30, 2007
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    $100mm here, $100mm there, who's counting.
     
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  2. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    where are Ed and some from Boardwalk defending him now?
     
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  3. the_stig

    the_stig F1 Rookie

    Sep 19, 2005
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    Oh I'm sure they'll be along in a little while. LOL. Have to admit to losing some respect for a few people over their defense of the Tucker enterprises but I can't quite bring myself to say they should have turned down the money. Just seems a little too ivory tower for me to make that judgement.
    The guys who worked for him had it made during the Level 5 gig - and Scott is a nice guy on the surface. I'm not sure I'd go as far as calling him charismatic but he's pleasant enough and seems like a nice guy - until you realize that he's convinced he has done nothing wrong and that this is all about him being targeted by big bad government.
     
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  4. Adrian Thompson

    Adrian Thompson Formula Junior

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  5. the_stig

    the_stig F1 Rookie

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    Yes and they were posted here a week ago! LOL. PS: your Denver Post link requires a subscription to read the story.
     
  6. Isobel

    Isobel F1 World Champ

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    Netflix - Dirty Money - Episode 2 ;)
     
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  7. the_stig

    the_stig F1 Rookie

    Sep 19, 2005
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    Amy Glynn writing for Paste Magazine:
    "An interesting variant is “Payday,” which follows the case of racecar driver Scott Tucker, who made over $400 million personally on an empire of dishonest payday loan organizations he falsely established on Native American tribal land to keep state government out of the picture. That episode gives a lot of airtime to Tucker’s family and a couple of friends, all of whom insist definitely that Tucker is the victim in the situation, and that repossessing his racecars was really mean of the FBI, who were probably just jealous of his opulent lifestyle or something."
     
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  8. BartonWorkman

    BartonWorkman F1 Veteran
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    Watched the Scott Tucker episode on Netflix last night and all you may say is "Wow, just wow".

    He has absolutely no remorse for what he has done. The only time he shows real emotion is talking about
    his brother's suicide. He really gets broken up about that and the cameras kept rolling.

    But, to say that what he was doing is done by all financial institutions is a flat out deception. First of all,
    when most people take out a loan they go to a bank, they work with a point person at that bank whom they
    may meet in person or speak with over the phone and at least some accountability.

    What Tucker's outfit was doing was making loans via the Internet, hiding behind multiple layers of Indian
    tribes whom were giving him cover but evidently oblivious to the amount of money his enterprise was pulling
    in.

    The point being, people were dealing with a faceless, nameless and virtually untraceable entity which was
    taking money directly out of their accounts without their knowledge or consent. While Tucker's real business
    was in Kansas City, his operators were told to tell customers that they were based in Oklahoma to the point
    where the operators were given print outs of daily weather statements in the case any customer may ask
    what the weather was there that day.

    Tucker claims that he wasn't aware of any of this, that he was only part of the software development side
    and that his brother ran the day to day business. But, Tucker was squirreling his money away into his wife's
    bank account so his hands aren't on anything. He and his attorney are both full on sociopaths.

    Definitely worth the while to watch.

    https://jalopnik.com/convicted-payday-loan-mogul-scott-tucker-has-absolutely-1822496589

    BHW
     
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  9. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    ha, watching right now. Ed says "Scott didn't have a lot of natural ability". That is so true and people attacked me when I said that early on. I raced with Scott in his first year or two when he was doing a bunch of SCCA races too in his 360 Challenge. Oh my gosh was he god awful bad.
     
  10. BartonWorkman

    BartonWorkman F1 Veteran
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    I remember somewhat when Level 5 arrived on the scene in ALMS. Mainly, the black cars and the
    cathedral they erected in the paddock that was so over the top.

    Were the sanctioning bodies wise to what he was doing? If so, why was the ALMS and GrandAm
    giving him a virtual free pass to compete?

    BHW
     
  11. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    ha, if you blocked everyone that had unethical businesses, criminals, or laundering there would be half the field. just watch the part where Ed spoke in the documentary. everyone getting paid supported him and seems still does today.
     
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  12. Nuvolari

    Nuvolari F1 Veteran
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    While this may go against the spirit of the Tucker bashing in this thread I will say that while ST may not have shown innate natural ability you do need to respect the enormous effort he put forward to get better. Money aside ST did spend a LOT of time (that could otherwise be spent doing more relaxing things) putting himself in harms way and grinding away at getting better. Sure in the lower classes he could bring a tank to a knife fight but at the ALMS and ELMS level he was up against equally funded opposition and fared well against them. This reality is a super bitter pill to swallow (myself included) where a wealthy un-talented guy leapfrogs by eons what an unfunded talented guy could have done.

    Just an opinion showing a little props for the work ethic and stick-to-idness (is that even a word) that ST displayed when many others would have gotten discouraged well before their finances were exhausted.

    Back to the bashing gentlemen
     
  13. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    without a doubt! I don't think his "business" took much time, so he could afford the money and time to race SCCA, Ferrari Challenge and Pro. He also did numerous track rentals during the week. I think during that time no one got more track time than Scott did. although he did work hard and became a good driver, his lack of talent could also jump up and bite him and the team even towards the end.
     
  14. Isobel

    Isobel F1 World Champ

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    I’d prefer to see the Level 5 trackside tv crew follow him around Club Fed. Not to derail, but Dirty Money’s episode 1 on the VW scandal was incredible, especially their secret gassing of primates to prove cleaner emissions. Disgusting in every respect, I’m embarrassed to own an S4.
     
  15. BartonWorkman

    BartonWorkman F1 Veteran
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    Interesting too (at least I thought so anyway) was that he kept his racing cars at his house.

    Could be he was hiding them there rather than at a race shop but the documentary made big play about
    the cars being confiscated and put on a Reliable trailer as each one was slowly towed out to
    the street and onto the trailer.

    Yes, the VW feature was equally enlightening. Not only did they test on primates but the notion was also
    floated to test on human beings strapped to a stationary bicycle. Interesting that they pointed out other
    German diesel manufactures BMW and Mercedes-Benz were also caught cheating.

    Wouldn't be at all surprising that its still going on even today.

    BHW
     
  16. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    He had a dozen race cars, I think those were just a couple of his favorites displayed as art. Based on the driveway to basement not easy to get in and out.
     
  17. galt

    galt Formula 3
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    He certainly did not come of looking sparkling in the documentary and I certainly don't know him or know anything about that business but wonder a few things.

    Is it really true that people go to a and deal with a loan officer for a 300 USD loan? Seems like you could not possibly make any money doing that as a business unless banks do it as a loss leader activity? I would think a normal bank would have no interest in that business--but maybe I am incorrect?

    In the documentary, one of his guys show a disclosure document and claim that multiple notices were sent to his clients. Do you think that was a lie? Seems like they should have flushed that out a little more.

    I think one of the most "boiler room" aspect was this whole Indian reservation thing. Pretty nasty to get the weather report so you can be more believable that you are actually on an Indian reservation---ughhh.

    That business definitely seems like an awfully unsavory business to get involved with. Especially since, if you are going to do it, you probably do need to charge pretty high fees as a % of the loan amount due to the extremely small sizes of the loan vs the cost of organizing them--not to mention the extremely high credit risk. For that reason--even if you do that business at cost (risk adjusted) it would seem to me that the fees would have to be very very high and people are going to "feel" like they are being ripped off. I suppose a better way to go about it is simply via a pawn shop type arrangement. At least then the loan is sort of secured and the large "fees" hide in the wholesale vs market value of the product. Anyway, just some thoughts.
     
  18. Lotaz

    Lotaz Formula 3

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    When they mentioned Scott Tucker and Level 5 racing during the 24 Hours of Daytona yesterday, I actually knew what they were talking about since I had read this thread front to back in December. I hadn't seen the conviction but I am glad they got him and his lawyer. I will have to watch the Netflix program tonight.
     
  19. ricksb

    ricksb F1 Veteran

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    Ooh...must see tv. WIll watch, thanks!
     
  20. BartonWorkman

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    One thing you gotta say about Tucker is that he's definitely not camera shy.

    I remember when he burst on the scene with these crazy paddock set ups, multiple cars, all this, media members
    raised an eyebrow at the fact that the team seemed to have its own camera crew and reporter on site at each race.
    They mentioned this in the documentary.

    He seems obsessed with being in the spotlight whether it was his racing or his business dealings. He allowed the
    camera crews unfettered access in the case of the documentary. Where things went off the rails is when Tucker,
    his attorney and his wife started crying about how they're the victims in the whole thing.

    BHW
     
  21. anunakki

    anunakki Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    I believe that word gets thrown around far too liberally these days, but in this situation its well used.
     
  22. apex97

    apex97 Formula Junior
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    My position is well known and no need to add anything to this conversation. I have already been hit with the most vile comments imaginable on social media as a result of the Netflix deal. If you go against mob rule you are gonna get hit with a few pitchforks and I have had more than enough.
     
  23. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    you did come off as a nice guy Ed! you seemed genuine and truthful. of course Scott seemed dumbfounded and completely unremorseful for everything that happened. I guess my perspective of you and others that worked for him there is no way early on for you to know exactly what he was doing. His race team and your checks were probably from Level 5 and I remember early on his cars had sponsorship by "West..." something or another which I imagine was just a shell investment company. I guess the hard question for you now is after seeing the evidence of the actual business practices and how everyday common people were tricked, how could you then still defend Scott?
     
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