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prices of Daytona Spyder "conversions" ??

Discussion in 'Vintage Ferrari Market' started by Parnelli, May 1, 2017.

  1. bighitter2

    bighitter2 Formula Junior

    May 7, 2005
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    chuck coli
    When i bought the car,engine was tuned to 8500 rpm with the largest venturies and biggest jets in the webbers,i had it detuned to 6500 for street use,i requested they used restaint out of respect for an old motor....it was run up to 6400 rpm the Dyno showed 365 hp at 6400 with the power band showing a sharp vertical line....these cars in ‘ Lamans Specs’ were in the 410 hp range back in the day...so we are thinking over 400 hp...sure runs like it..
     
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  3. Daytonafan

    Daytonafan F1 Rookie

    Oct 18, 2003
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    This 365GTC was converted into a GTS. For a while it belonged to a friend of my Father's (it may have even been this auction that they acquired it). Quite a nice car IIRC

    https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/16248/lot/579/
     
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  4. gcalex

    gcalex Karting
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    As someone who has been shopping for a Daytona "on and off" for something like 30 years, I have contemplated the "conversion vs coupe" question repeatedly many times. My general take is that:

    1) The price of a coupe and conversion that are in the same condition tends to be sort of a wash; any intrinsic difference that might be there is probably less than the difference caused by the randomness introduced by emotional aspects associated with the specific buyer and seller that happen to be involved in a particular transaction. Sellers tend to think that they can get more for a conversion, but if you press until you get to the "absolute min that the seller will take," you tend to find that it is about what a coupe of equivalent quality could be had for.

    2) Conversions have a lot of questions marks over them, and if you poke around one them, one often finds things that seem a little questionable. I think that since a conversion is already "not factory," the temptation is pretty high to not "worry about the little details." And this is ignoring the fact that, at least in USA, it is not uncommon to find that a conversion got that way because a previous owner rolled it (or something similar)... :)

    3) One of the nicest things about a conversion is the fact that it is the cheapest way of getting into an Enzo-Era V12 spyder of any sort; even if not factory, it is still a Daytona, and it is still mega cool.

    4) Also, with the mind-share associated with the Corvette-based replicas, I actually think it is more under-the-radar to drive around in a conversion; 99% of folks would assume it is a $25k replica, and not brand you as someone driving around a half-mega-buck Ferrari. Personally, I'd just as soon not have the attention associated with the latter assumption.

    5) If you don't care about having the car judged at a show, just get what you personally like... :)

    BTW: I often use Daytona conversions to point-out to folks what (I think) the real purpose of the Classiche program is; if you had a real Daytona spyder chassis that blew-out its motor, etc..., and had to have all that stuff swapped, the chassis (as long as restored with the right bits) is clearly worth more than if someone found the blown-out block and put it into a conversion (or worse yet, took a conversion and restamped things so that it looked like it might be one of the real spyders); Classiche only gives the Red Book to the guy with the real chassis (again, as long as it has been restored with the right bits).

    Just my opinions,
    Alex
     
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  5. Portenos

    Portenos Formula 3
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    Alex (gcalex) you have made some very interesting points, well reasoned and cogent, however you left out the IMHO and with all due respect the most compelling point of the car, and that is to be driving it!!
    I can tell you from experience - and I was driving mine today - there is nothing, I mean absolutely nothing like driving a well tuned Daytona Spyder with top down and listening to that marvelous exhaust note as that 4 cam 6 weber engine comes alive at around 4,000 RPM and begins begging for more!
    Screw the red book, screw the Concours, screw what some idiot thinks it "might be"
    At that moment I am at one with the car and for me thats all that counts.
    Ciao,
    Portenos

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  6. gcalex

    gcalex Karting
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    Hi Portenos,

    No argument from me; as I finally concluded, "get what you personally like."

    I was mostly just trying to address the question at the start of the thread; i.e., whether in reality there was much of a price difference between a coupe and a conversion...

    And mind you, the closed cars are pretty glorious at WOT as well... :)

    Cheers,
    Alex
     
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  8. Portenos

    Portenos Formula 3
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    While in Modena in Sept on my Car Guy Tour I stopped by the old AutoSport shop now known as Bacchelli & Villa and owned by the MAG group of Ferrari of Beverly Hills.
    Sig Bacchelli whom I have known for over 20 years remembered my car and had records of the re-body when done in 1979.
    He was kind enough to provide me with this "Dichiaro" authenticating the car as done by him.
    I thought those of you with Bacchelli cars would find this interesting.
    Ciao,
    Portenos

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  9. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
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    Mar 2, 2005
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    15689 at Russo & Steele auction in Monterey/CA August 2013.
    Door jamb tag and ID tag are reproductions. This car, originally a Berlinetta, was completed on the 10 April 1972 at the factory and delivered new to official dealer Motor S.a.s. di Carla Allegretti e C., in Bologna, Italy.
    Original exterior color Rosso Dino 20-R-350 with Beige VM 3218 Connolly leather interior.

    Marcel Massini

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  10. Portenos

    Portenos Formula 3
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    And now we know more of the story.
    Thank you Marcel Massini
    Does this mean I now have a Massini Report to go with the car. ):
    Does official dealer Motor S.a.s. di Carla Allegretti e C., in Bologna still exist?
    Ciao,
    Portenos
    AKA FGM
     
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  11. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
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    Motor S.a.s. di Carla Allegretti e C., ceased to exist long time ago.

    Marcel Massini
     
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  13. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

    Nov 19, 2008
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    Do you know the exact weight of 15689 as it is now with a Spider style alloy body or how much lighter it is than a Daytona Spider?
     
  14. Portenos

    Portenos Formula 3
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    No I do not but it is a good question I often think about. I will get it weighed and post it.
    I know it is very light to push around in the garage.
    Ciao,
    FGM
     
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  15. ag512bbi

    ag512bbi F1 Veteran
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    I know the Exact Feeling!
     
  16. polds

    polds Rookie

    Aug 17, 2005
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    I’d like to think that driving an ally competition SWB or Closed light California on screaming cam might usurp a Daytona...

    In addition, some mere mortals have had the almost sexual pleasure of piloting a P3 on public roads.

    Roundabouts and swings....
     
  17. bighitter2

    bighitter2 Formula Junior

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    chuck coli
    Found this article in a 1971 Motor Trend ....anyone know this car?
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  18. bighitter2

    bighitter2 Formula Junior

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    Portenos, i could not agree more, i found this pic my wife took at the Rocky Point Restaurant on the Saturday after Concorso 2003 we drove to Big Sur for lunch and touched 130 on the way back ...pulled in here after crossing The Bixby Bridge, my wife caught my S——— eatin grin , one drive i will never forget...those of you that have driven this in an open Ferrari know what i mean...Chuck
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  19. SCantera

    SCantera Formula 3
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    I certainly understand those that don't appreciate that some Daytona Coupes were transformed to be Spyders. And I respect that concept.

    I can only share what my knowledge of the practice was back in the late 70s - early 80s. My Dad bought a coupe sight-unseen that was in Vancouver in 79. Cost was $20k. He had it transported to Straman in CA for the conversion. While I am not an expert on the methods used in the conversion Dick Straman seemed to do a pretty credible job. Both with the back clip as well as the structural improvements. In addition the top and fittings of the interior were also of a high standard. The car looked like new when he drove it cross-country with my Mom back to DE.

    A few years ago I saw a black Daytona at Concorso Italiano. I knew it was my Dad's car since it was black/tan and had the Euro plexi over the headlights. No Spyders had the plexi nose. When the Spyders were in production pop-up headlights had already become the standard for all Coupes.

    My Dad didn't care that it was not an original Spyder. He drove all the cars in his barn and while he maintained them to the highest standards they all had miles. I had driven that car many miles and didn't care or even know that conversions were not accepted by some. It's an amazing car nonetheless. Hats off to those that are not concerned about the originality. The Daytona Spyder is a stylish thrill ride!!
     
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  20. 375+

    375+ F1 Veteran
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    s/n 12851 did.
     
  21. SCantera

    SCantera Formula 3
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    I stand corrected. Thank you.
     
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  22. gcalex

    gcalex Karting
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    I’ve always found it odd that it is not uncommon to find conversions with plexi noses; particularly, as it makes it so unlikely that the car could be a factory spyder...
     
  23. 375+

    375+ F1 Veteran
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    It was the prototype, none after that.
     
  24. Daytonafan

    Daytonafan F1 Rookie

    Oct 18, 2003
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    IIRC correctly the Herb Chambers Spyder that was featured on Chasing Classic cars featured a plexi nose for a while. After it was crashed in the seventies it was rebuilt with a plexi nose for some reason, and then restored by Wayne Carini back to the correct pop up nose?
     
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  25. bighitter2

    bighitter2 Formula Junior

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    Sometimes the shop doing the job had to use what they could find at the time...even ‘back in the day’ the parts were not that easy to find
     
  26. Portenos

    Portenos Formula 3
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    Daytona #14669 is being offered on Bring a Trailer.
    This is a AutoSport conversion done in 1984 and again sent to Modena in 2017 for additional work.
    A spectacular car that should bring top dollar. If you are looking for a Daytona Spyder Conversion this has to be one of the very best. Don't miss it.
    I was driving mine today and love it. 10 days ago I actually drove it in the pouring rain from San Diego to Palm Desert a little over 2.5 hours and 260 miles.
    With towels on my lap from the leaks and wiper working great!
    Ciao,
    FGM
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  27. Portenos

    Portenos Formula 3
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    tomc and Wheels1 like this.
  28. Wheels1

    Wheels1 F1 Rookie
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    Good for you,.
    I hope it had stopped raining when you were doing 90 mph!
     

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