Predicted FF bottom for early used ones? | FerrariChat

Predicted FF bottom for early used ones?

Discussion in 'FF/Lusso' started by KY _Soldier, Feb 9, 2016.

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  1. KY _Soldier

    KY _Soldier Formula Junior

    Oct 13, 2008
    564
    Louisville KY
    Full Name:
    Eric Rahman
    Over the next few months...what are your thoughts on early FFs?

    150k?
    140k?
    130k?

    Thoughts?
     
  2. ferrari169

    ferrari169 Karting

    Jan 14, 2014
    147
    Northeast USA
    i think the '15 and '16 FF will take more of a hit than the earlier ones.
     
  3. Bamsefar

    Bamsefar Formula Junior

    Nov 26, 2012
    523
    Will it not be hard to say that already? The GTC4Russo prices are not public yet - without them it will be very hard to say...

    Example say that a FF had a price of $400.000, now for this example the GTC4Russo in identical color and so on might have a price of $500.000. That is a 25% increase in price - how will such a price for the "new" GTC4Russo affect the value of the FF?
     
  4. SciFrog

    SciFrog Formula Junior

    Apr 9, 2008
    566
    USA
    $130k in about a year for 20k miles...
     
  5. Brian L

    Brian L Formula 3

    Jun 17, 2015
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    Brian
    Very much build dependent. And miles to a lesser degree.

    Some FFs are weird, some are gorgeous. So no one answer is possible. Most savvy dealers have always thought $150, given reasonable factors. The overall package is way beyond a loaded Panamera etc.

    Pano roof models have a big advantage in my opinion. LED wheel is money. Full electric seats. Cameras. All good/matters.
     
  6. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
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    Aug 22, 2002
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    I have a 2012 FF 380k sticker with 22k miles. id be surprised if my car is worth 150k wholesale. I don't think the new car will specifically impact the further depreciation much bit I'm sure my car will continue to depreciate with time and miles.

    at 400K plus no one is buying a new lusso - people will wait until the screaming lease deals come out. at 300k I can see them selling. my 2 cents
     
  7. Jasone

    Jasone Formula 3
    Owner

    Nov 15, 2011
    1,203
    Tampa Florida
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    Jasone
    OMG.. Really tired of these stupid market threads. How about this.. actually buy, own, sell an FF and participate in the market. I own an FF and a Speciale, I've owned F430s, 458s and 360s. Stop with the dumb threads and actually participate in the market and offer real life experiences..
     
  8. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
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    Aug 22, 2002
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    LOL trust me I wish my example was fake!
    I have to say the FF has given me some of the best 22k miles ive driven in my life!
     
  9. F2003-GA

    F2003-GA F1 World Champ
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    Nov 2, 2003
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    #9 F2003-GA, Feb 9, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2016
    I don't think we will see much movement - used FF's are already a great value
    Plus there's a pretty substantial pricing gap of FF discounted vs full list Lusso
    Just my humble opinion don't mean to offend no one :)
     
  10. Brian L

    Brian L Formula 3

    Jun 17, 2015
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    I agree the bottom is near, but who cares. It's the best money you can spend on a car that can be shared with more than 1 person. I love every mile driving my 14 FF, rain or sun, fast or not as fast :)
     
  11. MoeD

    MoeD Formula 3
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    Aug 1, 2007
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    #11 MoeD, Feb 10, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2016
    That's a Bold statement. An FF in the same garage with a Speciale?? Red Flag

    The truth among the dealers is that you got your Speciale because you also picked up an FF. They need to move the less than loved cars and usually condition sale of the sought after cars on the less sought after purchases.

    Looking to keep up production numbers, Ferrari is intentionally overproducing some models beyond demand and forcing them into the market. I have friends that have time & again taken FF & California deliveries just to get on the lists for or get the actual cars they really want- including Speciales. Then they sell unwanted cars off into the market taking a beating in the process. This is the backhanded way dealers charge way over list pricing for the cars in higher demand and why there are so many second hard cars of certain models for sale in the market.

    No doubt some purchases are real, but a huge portion are not. So how is that participating in the market??

    It's not at all, it's managing and creating an altogether false market- a subject for another thread altogether. But the point is, FF's then quickly tumble to reality pricing and will tumble even further now that there's a revised car. The FF then becomes a lot of car for the money.

    Therefore this thread makes plenty of sense, because truly the FF is a Fantastic car in awkward clothing. And the market will reflect at what point each of us will break down and say, 'Hey, the car's butt ugly, but it's a current 4 place F car, & at these prices, I'll take one'.
     
  12. Camlet1

    Camlet1 Formula 3

    May 3, 2014
    2,079
    UK
    I don't own an FF and am not in the market for the new Lusso. But I understand Jasone's frustration and irritation at the time spent speculating on when and by how much my car is going to tank. Because the vast majority of speculative comments are nonsense.

    The 612 was by some considered very ungainly and its residuals were as strong as a wooden beach hut in a tropical storm. Now it's gaining strongly, the 612 now looks seriously cool. The 550 Maranello at one point was considered a puffed up Toyota Supra and its residuals hit lows that made a Ford Focus seem expensive. Now the 550 M is rightly the stuff of dreams. And recently even the 599 GTB, which was sweet from day one was however a complete pain to sell; now good ones are gaining ground too.

    So here's my two and a bit cents. The FF will become cool by people far beyond current owners, and in a few years will gently climb in value, especially for well specced and cared for examples. So Jasone, ignore the posts, have fun with your superb pairing (IMO an FF in some colours looks fabulous) and wait it out. Judging by previous experience it will not take long.
     
  13. MoeD

    MoeD Formula 3
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    #13 MoeD, Feb 10, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2016
    I truly agree that in hindsight many models seem much more appealing than when first offered. For many the acceptance period is longer and the cars need to get out there to be accepted with time.

    I also find these cars to be crowning achievements in capability as Ferraris, but the shape is not traditional and there will always be a point made of that. Perhaps tastes will become more accepting over time, especially if other mfgrs offerings follow suit of Ferrari, but for the moment many find it awkward and less sexy than the F car sports coupe shapes to which we are accustomed.

    Nevertheless they will, like most cars, depreciate at first and rebound thereafter over the years as they begin to be better regarded. For now, many of us are not sold on the shape, but your notion that that could change over the years has merit.

    My point is that sales and pricing on these cars haven't been natural and the question as to where values will settle is of relevance to those who own them as well to those who may indeed come to own them. I'd not considered the controversial FF, but the Lusso makes a better case for this shape as my present driver begins to age. So while this thread seems superficial on the surface, it does have some relevance to any of us 4 place owners in this community.
     
  14. MoeD

    MoeD Formula 3
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    #14 MoeD, Feb 10, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2016
    To get back on topic-

    Just making a point, because I love the FF and it's looks, just not it's roofline. I think people will find the Lusso is much more likable.

    So my thoughts are that FF values will dive at first as the model is displaced by the newer Lusso, but with time the Lusso's more likable package will evidence Ferrari's commitment to this model and its shape and will assist to solidify FF pricing.
     
  15. SciFrog

    SciFrog Formula Junior

    Apr 9, 2008
    566
    USA
    Not sure that will happen because the Lusso and the FF are too close. The FF will always be capped by the price of a used GTC4, which is not the case with the 612 today. The 612 is different enough to have a life of its own and some models are pretty rare (manual, Sessanta, OTO)...
     
  16. Caeruleus11

    Caeruleus11 F1 World Champ
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    Jun 11, 2013
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    I think these cars will follow the usual historic patterns- I don't think the GTC4 is going to make the FF worthless and I don't think the FF's relative appeal for some will make it worth more than the typical used GTC4. However, there will always be individual exceptions to the rule.

    I agree with the other posters- get the car you want and love and then drive it. :)
     
  17. FFantastic

    FFantastic Formula Junior

    Mar 23, 2015
    857
    UK Riviera
    Bang on the money. If you can't afford the hit don't stick your chin out. For some, talking the market down is good sport. Pointless thread.......**** happens
     
  18. FFantastic

    FFantastic Formula Junior

    Mar 23, 2015
    857
    UK Riviera
    What a load of tosh. Show me a statement from someone who was forced to buy a model they didn't want so they could get a Speciale................
     
  19. uhn2000

    uhn2000 Formula 3

    Oct 15, 2011
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    #19 uhn2000, Feb 10, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Think he was referring to OP.. anyhow to the threads point who knows the bottom - nobody :) In Canada an FF is still holding very strong and I am enjoying the crap out of mine!
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  20. CrazyMD

    CrazyMD Formula Junior

    Mar 10, 2012
    403
    Southern California
    Look at it this way...the guys with unlimited amounts of money to blow will buy any new ferrari because they have to have the newest item on the market. No matter what it is, what its specs are, etc. They get bored in 6-12 months and sell the car. This will be the majority of GTC4 orders now. I stress the word majority...doesnt mean everyone.

    A well optioned GTC4 is going to be about $375k-$400k...this is based on 2012 FF's that had MSRP right around that. Add tax and fees this car will cost $400-$425K. Thats a big check to write.

    Ferrari is announcing the GTC4 now. That means in United States it would likely be delivered sometime in the end of summer 2016 (order in March, takes at earliest 3 months to build and ship to the states). This is earliest case..and how many cars will come to the US in the initial build. I think at most 100. So the first round of used GTC 4 can be expected possibly in summer of 2017 and likely be at around $275k-$300k

    Now lets look at the FF. Most guys who have them now bought them used. They are unlikely to sell their car and pay a $200K upgrade fee for the GTC4. The guys who bought them new even in 2012 and kept the car probably love the car as is and won't want to shell out another $200k for an upgrade. Guys who bought a 2014 or 2015 model new likely aren't going to pay a $150K upgrade fee.

    The average guy looking for an upgrade from a porsche panamera, or bentley, etc and wants to get into a ferrari I don't think will likely write a check for $400k. Used FF will look a LOT more attractive at $200k. Most guys with an FF I don't think will let their car go for much lower than $200k unless they put high miles on them.

    My bets are, the used market for FF will be fairly stable and won't really drop a whole lot. And...at the end of the day...who cares. Did you buy an FF to make money? No, you bought it to drive and enjoy a daily driving Ferrari.
     
  21. FFantastic

    FFantastic Formula Junior

    Mar 23, 2015
    857
    UK Riviera
  22. Jasone

    Jasone Formula 3
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    Nov 15, 2011
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    For the record... I have never made it a secret I bought my FF to get an Speciale allocation. I have also never made it a secret how much I LOVE my (wife's) FF. I wanted one to begin with and when I realized I could get a Speciale if I bought one, it was a match made in heaven and pushed me over the edge.

    What I have issue with is all the market threads that predict doom and gloom... Look up some of my posts on the subject. People have been predicting the complete collapse of the 458 market ever since the 488 was announced and there are countless threads about 458 being worthless... as I said in another Lusso thread recently.. you would think 458 have been free for the last 2 years if you read all those threads.

    Buy the car because you love it, want it.. and DRIVE it. I personally don't give a rats behind what the price is.. you couldn't make me an offer on my Speciale that I would accept and I'm very likely to buy a Lusso.

    I simply don't like the market speculation threads... just as pointless as a bunch of stock brokers trying to time the market.. you simply don't know.
     
  23. LARRYH

    LARRYH F1 Veteran
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    Jun 3, 2011
    9,142
    virginia usa
    don't know what they will bottom at but was offered a nice 2012 for 155 the other day by a porsche dealer that knows I like Ferraris ,low mileage nice car good color etc.. I did not act on it but it sold within a couple of days ...
     
  24. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
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    Larry next time ur going to kick me square in the nuts pls warn me so I can protect myself!
     
  25. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
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    Aug 22, 2002
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    exactly!
    +1
     

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