Portofino runflat winter tyres? | FerrariChat

Portofino runflat winter tyres?

Discussion in 'California/Portofino/Roma' started by agricultoru, Sep 30, 2020.

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  1. agricultoru

    agricultoru Rookie

    Apr 14, 2020
    23
    Romania
    Hi guys, I have a relatively new Portofino (2020) and this is going to be my first winter with it. (first time Ferrari owner)
    I plan to use it when there is no snow, so I will put winter tyres on it.
    My summer tyres are the Pirelli PZeros it came with from factory, but I'm seriously considering putting runflats on it. And probably when time comes to change the summer tyres, also replace them with runflats.
    I want to use runflats just for convenience, I had only runflats for 10 years and various BMWs and I find them very convenient in case of a flat.

    Has anyone done this? Is there anything special I need to do, or just take the normal tyre off and put on the runflat? I also have to mention the closest Ferrari dealer is like 500 miles away and with covid and all it's not going to be easy to make the trip. So I will need to do all this at a local tyre shop, where I don't think they have ever worked on a Ferrari. Is there anything special I need to tell them?
     
  2. Snewton94024

    Snewton94024 Formula Junior

    Apr 24, 2015
    529
    Silicon Valley
    Full Name:
    Steve Newton
    Local tire shops will often refuse to work on Ferrari cars due to concerns about damaging the wheels and whether they can do the resetting work after is a good question.Why do you want to put on winter tires if you won’t be driving in the snow? Icy conditions?
     
  3. vjd3

    vjd3 F1 Rookie
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Jun 3, 2005
    2,565
    Massachusetts
    Full Name:
    Vic
    My new Alfa Giulia came with Pirelli P7 Cinturato all-season runflats and they are fairly tolerable, unlike the brick-like Continentals I've experienced on a BMW 640. I know they are available as 19s but apparently not in 20s.

    I will say that I have driven my Cali T in cold temperatures (30s-40s) on dry roads on the stock summer P Zeros and the car was fine as long as you drive it sensibly.
     
  4. agricultoru

    agricultoru Rookie

    Apr 14, 2020
    23
    Romania
    In the part of the world where I live (Eastern Europe, Romania), the winters can be pretty cold and sometimes snowy. Temperatures of -15C (5F) are quite likely. Of course, I don't plan to take the car out in the snow. But since the closest Ferrari dealer is in Budapest Hungary, which is something like 400 miles away, I don't want to be in the position where there is some small issue with the car and I have to postpone fixing anything for months just because driving that distance on summer tires is not an option. If the weather is decent, like 5-10C (40-50F) and no snow, I want to be able to get in the car and drive it up there stress free. So it's 99% that I will put winters on it. Now I just have to decide whether to use runflats or not. If this change can cause any problems with the sensors, fitting and so on, then I will stick to normal winter tires. If the switch is no issue at all, then I will do it. This is what I want to know, so if anyone has done that on a Portofino, sharing would be very valuable, thanks.

    ps: I know using runflats will impact on the driving experience, but we are talking about driving in winter conditions, so there will be no hard driving on my part. I'm no Chris Harris, I just want to be safe without having to be paranoid every time I have to squeeze the throttle.
     
  5. cyr

    cyr Formula Junior

    Jan 28, 2020
    264
    Full Name:
    Cy
    I also have a 2020 Portofino which is used as my daily drive and will be used throughout the winter, with winter tyres. Like you, except in the snow.
    My dealer advised against runflats, both for summer and winter. I admit I do not know why but he said he would arrange winter tyres on standard Ferrari wheels so that just the wheels need to be changed with no risk to damaging the diamond finish wheels
    HOWEVER - be aware of one point in the warranty as your car must be new and covered by the warranty. The warranty conditions explicitly state that any changes done to the car by anyone but a Fearrai dealer invalids the entire warranty. This is pretty drastic and you may want to check with the dealer before going to a local garage for your winter tyres.
     
  6. Redneck Slim

    Redneck Slim Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Mar 10, 2011
    1,440
    Palo Alto,CA,USA
    Full Name:
    Walt Kimball
    That kind of warranty invalidation is not allowed in the USA under federal law.
     
  7. agricultoru

    agricultoru Rookie

    Apr 14, 2020
    23
    Romania
    #7 agricultoru, Oct 1, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2020
    I heard the same opinion from my dealer (regarding runflats) , but of course they were trying to sell a car without runflats on it, so it's pretty logical they were pushing normal tires...
    Regarding the change, your dealer's interest is to sell the whole thing. I know changing the whole wheel will make damage much less likely, but that's up to you to evaluate if it's worth spending the extra money for a whole new set of wheels.

    That sounds kind of extreme... I sent a message to my dealer asking about this. I don't know why, but I kinda expect the same answer. Why would they say anything different? Of course they want to bill as much as possible, but making a 800 mile round trip just for changing the tires doesn't make much sense for me.

    This sound right. I will probably have to consult the European Union law about this.




    LE: I just received a reply from the dealer where I bought the car (Vienna, Austria). They say it's not a problem changing the tires somewhere else. Didn't really expect such a quick and favorable answer.
     
  8. Bamsefar

    Bamsefar Formula Junior

    Nov 26, 2012
    523
    On one of my previous non-Ferrari cars I tried run-flats, both summer and winter. I will NEVER again try them, no way.

    On my Ferrari FF I run Michelin Alpin, I used to have Pirelli winters - both are good, but I prefer the Michelins.
     
  9. agricultoru

    agricultoru Rookie

    Apr 14, 2020
    23
    Romania
    Why, what happened? Did you encounter any issues when making the switch? Any problems with the pressure or temperature sensors? Dents in the rims? Anything else like that?
     
  10. Bamsefar

    Bamsefar Formula Junior

    Nov 26, 2012
    523
    It is different but in the end, the same:

    Summer run flats is way to "hard" no matter what air pressure. In the rain for example it was like driving on ice sometimes. And the ride quality was bad, not even close to my current Michelin PS4S (do notice that I am comparing a BMW 330 E92 with a Ferrari FF here ;-) ).

    Winter run flats: Although not the same as summer run flats it is still the same: To harsh (!) so they never offer that grip you need on ice or black roads (that is roads with ice kind of that simply you never see until you brake and then it is to late).

    It's like when the car manufacture decides to offer run flats, they never adapt the suspension to that tire. The tire wall, that will be stiffer on run flats, is part of the suspension and therefor a vital part of the grip (amount of friction between the tire and the road surface if you will) level.

    The only advantage I might recall was that thanks to the stiffer sidewalls I got a few cl lower fuel consumption on the road to my parents country home (it is a certain distance, 145 km, I used to drive the same day both direction whenever they needed help so I know the road very good and I always tried different stuff for fun, like fuel consumption - record is 0,58 l/km with a BMW 330xi E92 both ways - with 205 none run-flats tires!).
     
  11. agricultoru

    agricultoru Rookie

    Apr 14, 2020
    23
    Romania
    Great feedback, thank you.
    I am still curious if somebody has actually done this switch on a Portofino. And if there were any problems during the actual work of replacing the tires. I am worried there may be fitting problems or similar issues.
     
  12. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Veteran

    May 29, 2019
    6,023
    Hopefully some place nice.
    Full Name:
    A.B
    For winter tyres you can use Run-flats with little issue - if you can find a good size.
    With the temps you see, you need real winter tyres as Summer shoes will not work at those temps, I have found that the MPS4S get dangerous below +5 and that is a better tyre than your PZero.

    Now as far as summer tyres go, there's no good options. Not entirely sure why you want them, I can't remember when I last had a puncture in Europe.
    You have bought a Porto so I take it you like to drive. Installing a subpar ROF tyre will absolutely ruin the car on so many levels. Comfort, grip, noise etc. etc. etc. Just listen from those with experience and take our word for it when we say "Don't". Once your PZeros are done, make sure your next summer tyres are the MPS4S tyres. Much better shoe than the PZero.

    As long as your local tyre shop know what they are doing, and use touchless equipment, no problem. A Ferrari dealer is no guarantee for no damage and they are no guarantee for covering you if they damage one. Ask me how I know. Just get a shop that does hundreds of tyres per week to do it and have them do it right. I'm sure there's a sensible and reputable shop in your area.

    But to sum up, and can't be stressed enough.

    Winter tyre ROF? Sure go ahead.
    Summer tyre ROF? For the love of everything holy, DON'T!
     
  13. agricultoru

    agricultoru Rookie

    Apr 14, 2020
    23
    Romania
    Thank you for the feedback, much appreciated.
    The reason why I might consider runflats for summer also is linked to the area where I drive most of the time, that is Romania. It's not the likeliness of getting a flat, which as you said is low, I only had one in the last 10 years. It's just that if it happens, I will most likely have to get a tow truck and they don't have many around here that can handle a Ferrari. I don't want to get the car damaged just because I got a flat. I have no idea how to use that tire repair kit that comes with the car, never had to. Maybe I'll watch some youtube videos on that before I make my decision.

    So up until now, there's nobody who's done this on a Portofino, as far as replies go.
     
  14. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Veteran

    May 29, 2019
    6,023
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    A.B
    If you get a flat, you can't drive it far on a ROF either. It can get you home if you're close or to a garage. Same goes if you have normal tyre. You cannot drive a ROF to your Ferrari dealer seeing how far away that is from you. Your best option is to learn how to use the repair kit or get an emergency spare. I know a spare wheel option was available for the Cali T and Cali, so I think it is for the Porto as well. Ask your dealer about this. That is your best way of avoiding a tow truck.

    I have driven a T with ROF's and it was not a great experience. It will not be better on a Porto as they are very similar cars. Rough riding, poor grip, noisy and just overall bad. The tyres were Bridgestone Potenza S007 run flats, which is OE size and otherwise a good tyre. But as a run flat on a Ferrari, not very good. Bamsefar has it right, don't do it.
     
  15. agricultoru

    agricultoru Rookie

    Apr 14, 2020
    23
    Romania
    I don't plan to do that. I just want to avoid being stranded on the side of the road and until the tow company can bring the right kind of truck that can handle a Ferrari. Being able to drive 20 miles or so to a safe place would be nice.

    Anyway, I'll see my local tire shop on Saturday and see what they say after they take a look at the car. You guys have 90% convinced me not to do it. But I am still considering that 10% for the winter tires.
     
  16. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Veteran

    May 29, 2019
    6,023
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    A.B
    For the winter boots, go right ahead with the ROF. We're more on the fence with the summer sandals I think.

    Sent from my SM-G930F using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     

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