Interesting from Lee Sibley over in the UK: I agree with his view on 992s returning to normal depreciation patterns, and I think he’s right about supply and demand pointing to a long term rise in 964s. They are hard to find original, and there weren’t all that many to start. I disagree strongly on his view of the long hood 911. He contends that enthusiasts of these cars are all either old or dead, but as someone who was only a toddler during the early LWB 911 run I still view them as especially appealing. There aren’t many 1970 cars that are all that great to drive or certainly to maintain, but a 911 of that era is always going to find eager buyers. The car has had a 60-year run, so it’s not some obscure garage ornament. Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
Agreed. Collector tastes do change - I was reading post-war American cars seem to be declining in value/popularity apparently due to the owners "aging out" and younger people being not as into them - but I also don't see the bottom falling out of the long hood 911 market any time soon. He's right, long hoods don't have a whole lot in common with a new 911, but I don't think that's going to factor into the values of those cars. They're desirable cars in their own right. Years ago I read the same sentiments about the 356 market: "go to any 356 meet and it's a bunch of old gray-haired guys, and their kids aren't into the cars", but nobody's giving those cars away either. Will they continue to appreciate? Who knows. But they're sure not making any more of them and their appeal is pretty well established, as is the early 911's.
356 is a perfect example. Values are strong even for the coupes, and no one under 60-70 years of age is likely to remember when 356s were just the Porsche you drove to work. The cars have appeal beyond nostalgia. My first drive in a 356 was a ‘62 coupe, bali blue. I was expecting something antique but it was surprisingly good and the build quality put everything modern to shame. Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
What an idiot. He’s had a whole 12 years in the industry, call me when you’ve survived a few economic cycles. 20 years ago a lot of folks were saying the sky was falling on 356s because nobody would want them or wanted to service them. Today they are still highly coveted and the quality of support has never been better. The air cooled cars will always have a special following.
The reality is that the world population is still growing, and has grown a lot over the last 60 years, while the population of 356s has been shrinking over that time. So you don't need that much demand for the cars to be worth a lot of money. Same goes for long hood 911s... honestly, just about any air cooled 911.
Recently read that Porsche made more 991s than the entire production run of air-cooled 911s; I haven't done the math, but with 230,000+ 991s produced it sounds plausible. I thought that's a pretty interesting way to look at the relative rarity of the air-cooled cars.
Porsche were a pretty small company into the mid-1990s. I recall there were something like 450 911 coupes sent to the US in MY1993, and 125 or so in MY1994. Granted these were lean years, but I agree that modern Porsches (and Ferraris) seem more commonplace. In a way, though, I like it because (a) it keeps the company very profitable and (b) I like driving a rarer car that takes on more significance as new generations are launched. As donv posted, the population is still growing, and the numbers of air-cooled Porsches are relatively low. Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
I moved continent in 2002 after I sold my '73 911T and 964RS. Lost touch with prices big time and was astonished about 5 years ago what happened. The 911T I drove for 50.000 km in the late 90s within 2 years! Most fun and most reliable car I ever had. And cheap to maintain. I only replaced the brakes and timing chain. Too loud inside at 200 kph to hear your phone ring... Granted this car would be now 50 years old. But I would like to have a restored one as a daily driver. IF I could afford one.
I lost interest after the 997 . IMO a Mezger engine , manual turbo is a slam dunk investment. Affordable too not like the special editions of special editions he mentions. I passed on a convertible version with sport buckets and ceramic brakes last spring for around 80k . Many less convertibles than coupes . I Screwed up
I agree, though I will say I want a manual 991 or 992 T as a semi-daily so badly that I may do something dumb soon!
This reliability and simplicity will sustain early 911 values over the long term. Yes, a 991 is a great car, but it’s complicated and I wouldn’t want to be writing the repair checks in 15-20 years. Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
997.1 is peak 911, in my opinion. No stability control, hydraulic steering, minimal computers, and none of those stupid center lock wheels.
I wanted a 992, possibly a T or a 4S, but my local dealer told me not to bother, so I got a 930 instead.
It was about a year ago when he told me not to bother. My understanding is it has gotten a little better, and if you call around you can probably find something. Dealers still want excessive ADMs, in my opinion, or have absurdly long wait lists, but I think it is somewhat less crazy. I've been hearing more stories of dealers claiming to have multi-year waitlists and then calling up customers within a few months and saying they have a spot.
Interesting. I may call my dealer and see what I can find out. I also do parking lot maintenance for a sizeable auto conglomerate that includes a P car dealer, so maybe I can work an angle or two. Of course, the caveat here is that I’m still involved in a passionate affair with my black/black aerokit tuned 996.
I would have gone the same route. Unless you need an all-weather daily driver… We may start to see normal MSRP and depreciation on new 911s. Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
That was exactly my plan. A Carrera 4S optioned for winter driving, ski rack and all, with a manual transmission and winter tires. However, I really don't "need" it-- I have a wonderful Mercedes E400 wagon that works just fine in snow-- and I have to say that I really am enjoying the 930 more than I expected.
On old stuff where a lot of them were made (think “air-cooled” and “long hoods”)…the older it gets the wider the value range becomes dependent upon mileage and condition. This will continue. The ultra-low mileage “like new, never restored” will continue upwards in price. The low hanging beaters will fall in price. This isn’t car specific. It happens with most things. 991’s will continue to depreciate until the bottom of their depreciation curve (which hasn’t happened yet) and then the same thing will happen to them. Specialty car markets (low volumes) are above my pay grade. But they’re generally going to all be low milage. Hence, keeping the values similar as they age.
There are relatively few of the older cars. As posted earlier the 996 marked a huge increase in production. When you get to the long hood 911s, and break the totals down by T, E, and S, and engine displacement, you’re often talking about cars in the hundreds made. I.e., if you want a 911S 2.4, they aren’t really all that common. I’m looking for a long hood Sportomatic coupe, and production of that option is quite low — perhaps under 200 911s annually during the 1968-1973 period. Not everyone wants a long hood 911, but compared to 996 and later, and Ferrari 360 and after, they are scarce. It’s too soon to predict long term 991/992 values, but they are very common here in Southern California. Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
well my ‘66 has declined in value since I purchased it 5 years ago. It’s a very nice driver. But the creme de la creme of 66’s have risen slightly. Sportomatics are becoming somewhat of a niche market…rising due to numbers. I wish you could have found one a couple of years ago. But they’re starting to come out of hibernation. Good luck on your search!
Yes, would've been easier to buy one when no one wanted them...I'm fortunate to have a '93 coupe configured exactly the way I wanted. If the right Sportomatic comes along I'll consider that lightning struck twice. Your '66 is always going to be a sought after classic. Mileage doesn't matter. I'd bet values rise, but regardless you have a beautiful and important Porsche.
