A little off topic, but I don't want to go to a Porsche forum just to get this one question answered: What is the difference between these two Le Mans cars from the eighties? I recently saw a brief note in RACER where they even mentioned them in one swoop as if it was essentially the same car. Can anybody shed some light on this? PS: I have a very cool tape "In car 956" with Derek Bell thundering through famous tracks and an inboard camera in his 956.
google found me this http://962.com/history/956_962/index.htm it seems the 962 is a longer wheel base 956
The 962 is essentially just an update and revised version of the 956, which makes it all the more impressive the length of time that these cars dominated endurance racing. I had the pleasure of driving a LeMans spec 962 about ten years ago. Did some shake downs for a guy that vintage races it. Very cool car. Not as fast as the Riley Intrepids or Gurney Toyotas, but very fast none the less. They rank in my top 5 favorite cars of all time. If they weren't 1/4 mil, I'd own one. Don't know what I'd do with it, but I'd own it. John
The 962 was produced to meet IMSA safety rules which mandated that the footbox be behind the front suspension. IMSA would not allow the 956 to run in GTP until this was resolved. So, the 962 was produced on a bit longer wheel base which allowed teams to run some different configurations such as air inlets on the bonnet and there was some more latitude as to where the turbos were placed. In the 956, the turbos were set just behind the doors which caused a lot of heat to enter the cockpit whereas in the 962s, the turbos were generally placed towards the rear of the cars which helped solve the excessive cockpit heat problem and made 962 drivers much more comfortable. The 956s predated the 962s by a couple of years, the first 962 appeared at the (then) 24 Hours of Daytona as a factory car driven by the Andrettis in 1984 which infuriated Porsche factory customer teams such as Holbert and Bruce Leven (who ran the first customer 962 at the Riverside 6 Hours). As memory serves, the first 956s appeared as factory cars in 1981 in FIA European Group C category. Outwardly, the differences between the 956 and 962 are very subtle but the most obvious is the turbo exhaust outlets just behind the doors on the 956 which is the first give away. The nose pieces were given subtle tweaks (the 956 having a short nose and the 962 a more elongated one) but you will notice 962s with many various engine bonnet and wing incarnations depending on whom was developing them at the time as each team gave the 962s their own special treatments in GTP, Group C and Japanese Group C. BHW
The 956 actually raced for the first time in 1982; it used the 2.65 litre engine with water-cooled heads that Porsche had developed for their abortive 1980 Indy campaign. The original 962 had a single-turbo air-cooled 2.8 litre 935 engine rather than the twin-turbos of the 956, again due to an IMSA rule, and a distinctive intake above the cockpit, but was not fully competitive until increased to 3.2 litres. Porsche decided to standardise on the 962 for their works team, and actually got beaten at Le Mans by a privateer 956 on one occasion, because it was basically a faster package. Paul M
Thanks for that insight. Despite the fact that the 962 is the newer car I had a nagging suspicion that it wasn't as quick as the 956. You just confirmed that. Thanks!
This is interesting b/c I have looked quite closely at the configuration of the last factory 962 built (1991) and the turbos are placed just behind the doors. Greg A
That is correct for the 962C.......water/water 962 air, turbo was not by doors I'll post photos later......I have a 962c in the shop
btw, the 956 is NOT faster than the 962C or the 962 air to air. The tunnels on the IMSA 962 are far superior than the european spec tunnels. The big difference was your feet were in front of the C/L of the front wheels on the 56 and not on the 62. I've driven both........the best was the Crawford chassis like the Miller High Life 962 that gave Porsche its 50th career victory while winning the 24 Hours of Daytona. Subsequent years saw the 62's go to larger displacement and more boost up to 3.0 liters from 2.8 and then to 3.2. There are variations of bore and stroke for all kinds of displacements 956 used a 66 mm crank with 92.3 mm piston or 2650cc or referred to as 2.7 liter engine, mechanical injection and was 620HP at 8200rpm with 1.4 bar boost. Later with D-motronic, same top HP, but better throttle response. 962 used a 70.4 mm crank with 93 mm piston, 2869 or known as 2.8 liter engine with 7.5:1 CR, 650 HP @ 8200 95mm made it 3.0 liters, some teams did this as did works teams the 1988 962c was again 3.0 with either 9.0:1 or 9.5:1 depending upon sprint or endurance configuration build, the piston was double eyebrowed for both intake and exhaust cams the 1990 962c or "Group C" was 70.4mm crank x 95, but now you could have either 9.0, 9.5 or even 10.0:1 Compression ratio. The piston was concave "dished" on top in addition to small flycuts (eyebrows). There was also a 3.2 version or stroker that was 74.4 mm crank by 95 mm piston for 3164 cc with 700HP @ 7800 The car I prep for a customer dynos at 850HP @ 8500....it's a 962c That's the basic Architecture.........there are a lot of differences in all systems........too large for this forum.
Did'nt Dauer (not sure I spelled that correctly) build (convert) around 10 of these for the road? I've seen them mentioned in the "fastest road car" test from time to time, at around 252mph. As for one of the greatest road racers of our time, I met Mr. Bell at the 24 Rolex this year as part of the Milestone Club. Milestone ticket holders are allowed to drive three laps or so around the track the morning of the race. Although we were not allowed on the banking, I still managed to hit 139. After the drive, he told the story of his 962 flying through the air, seeing nothing but stars, and then landing upside down skidding down the track. Next door to our event was a vendor of historic prints, pictures, art, etc. I hurried next door and purchased a picture of the 917 Long Tail he race at Le Mans. When his wife saw the picture, she said, Oh, is that the car? Are there more pictures there. I offered to see if there were, and he said oh honey, we've got lots of those at home. He then signed the print and wrote the words "246 mph Le Mans"! He is very generous with the average fan, of which I am one of. I will remember that for some time to come.
Sorry, I meant that for that circuit and the rules, especially the fuel ration, for that race, the Joest 956 was a better package than the works 962 - it had the smaller venturi tunnels and smaller tyres, and maybe a better EMS chip, so it just had a better downforce/drag/grip/power equation. Saw a whole bunch of 956/962s and Jaguar XJR V12s and V6s in the Historic Group C race at Silverstone on Sunday - very nice. Paul M
A couple of years ago I was at Goodwood's festival of speed watching the cars go by. As I turn to my left I noticed Bell standing right next to me watching them as well. Not for long though, he was just waiting for a break in traffic to get into the inner sanctum to snatch his ride. I was so stunnded I only took a picture of him, but didn't dare to ask for autograph. The man is a legend. The video "In car 956" shows Bell doing laps around famous race tracks while commenting on them. A must see for any race fans. Image Unavailable, Please Login
The 962 does not designate it as a single or dual turbo. There were plenty of 962s with the single turbo set up. There was also the 966, which was the 962 "open cockpit". See pics below. If you want info on the Dauer just go to : http://www.962lm.com/index-h.htm http://www.qv500.com/dauer962p1.php If you want info on 917, 962, 935, 906, 904,... go to www.gunnarracing.com Pictorial reference like no other. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
The 966 was a bastard car built by Kevin Jeanette "Gunnar Racing" with spare parts of various 962s in an attempt to have a Porsche powered WSC car when GTP was banned. It handled like dog **** by all accounts John Paul Jr. gave.....he's the one that tested it for Gunnar.
There are/were road going versions of the 962 built by Dauer and Vern Schuppan in Australia. I seem to recall an American guy trying to do a road going version but it looked awful. BHW
http://www.racingsportscars.com/ This is the most extensive web site I've seen w/photo's. Scroll down and you can see the evolution of these cars. To see a 962 coming off the tri-oval at night in Daytona is something I will never forget. Image Unavailable, Please Login
The 956s and 962 sure provided a lot of great memories from the 80s. It's a shame that Audi has not mass produced the R8s in the same mode that Porsche produced 962s for customer teams but apparently the business has changed a good deal in 20 years. BHW
Audi is not quite as cash strapped as Porsche was in the 1980s I guess. They just wanted to win at Le Mans, pretty much at no expense spared.
I've seen the Dauer and Schuppan versions in person and they were representative of the racing 962 with a few slight alterations to make them street legal and quite beautiful. The American version (sorry cant remember the name) looked like something Homer Simpson would have entered the Soap Box Derby with; sort of like when these guys try to put 512 T bodies on Fiero frames. BHW
yes, at least this one was......gun metal gray, and had huge NACA ducts on the side like the Group C Mercedes. That looked good on the Mec, not the 962
Here's the photos I promised of chassis 962-162 Note the pedals are even with the center line of the front suspension, not in front like the 956. Also note the dual turbo/intercooler setup of this water/water car. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
