Porsche 928 and TR... can it (928) "hang"

I have never owned a 928, but I have driven them as I am a long-time 911 owner. Used to get them as loaners during service back in the old days.

I can guarantee you that no 928 can match a Testarossa in straight line performance. They were easy prey for the quad valve 1990-1995 ZR-1, which was itself just about equal to an early Testarossa and a notch under a 512TR or M. In the curves - up to the driver really.

Remember too, that about 90% or more of the 928s were hampered by a pretty primative 3-speed torque converter automatic which cut down on their potential performance.

 

It is no comparising....

I owned both and love the 928s4, gt, gts but it is like comparing a ... don't even know..

The TR is a raw race car, a real super car, you have to work to drive it and it gives you a big kick.

A 928 is a comfortable sports car, quick, nice, but no super car and can be compared with a M -BMW or a Mercedes sport. You can drink your cup of coffee in it while driving. Fun but not super car class...

 

Not even close. The Testarossa is far and away clearly a better car in ALL aspects. I have worked on and driven both. I think whoever made that statement was trying to massage his ego. The TR blows away the 928 by 3rd gear and the handling isn't even close. Now, lets talk a 930 Turbo and we know have something to talk about. That will give the TR a runs for its money. Particularly if it has upgrade turbo's, intercoolers and a Kremer suspension package. THe 930 then is every bit the villian against a TR.

 

The late 70's early 80's 928s were fast for the time. The TR came out in 1985 when the 928 had a bigger engine. In 1987 the 928 S4 was released. On the highway a 928, a TR, ///M5, ///M6 or 560 sec mercedes will all do about 150 flat out. From what I hear, the TR will do 17x mph.

 

I have to disagree.

The question as I read it is can the 928 "hang" performance wise regarding a comparative vintage TR. Everything I mention below assumes both cars with 5spd manuals, the only way to really compare and what I have experience with.

Subjectively, both specs in the magazine tests of the time and in today's real world experience the answer is yes, especially if you are talking about '87-'95. Top end nod goes to the TR (180 compared to, what, 190ish for the TR? Only a handful of drivers will ever explore those limits, and even fewer should), handling to the 928, braking to the 928, 0-60 to the TR, pretty even match in different categories including skid pad, curb weight, range for highway driving, etc. As James said, straight line acceleration will go to the TR. You would think the TR would outbrake the 928 in a straight line with a mid engine, but it is not the case.

Put them both on the track in the hands of equal drivers and, depending on the track, one would get the nod over the other. TR gets you in trouble quicker, more neutral handling for the 928.

As far as visceral driving experience, that is far more subjective. For my money it's the TR in a big way as it relates to driving joy. Italian over German, what else needs to be said.

The flaw in the 928 is also its brilliance relative to how ahead of its time it was. There is literally no drama driving that car past the driver's limits, and everyday driving was a non event. Kinda like most hum drum late model perfomance cars, everything controlled and a bit of a disconnected feel.

I don't think driving a TR is ever a non event no matter what speed, and in that way there is no way the 928 can "hang"

 

As an owner of an early euro 928S , I can say yes a TR is superior(these people must be smoking crack), however as turbopanzer said a 930 will give it a run for its money....I can say, my stock 930 will chew up a TR and spit it out in most any situation. The only place a TR is superior is in the looks department and in top speed.

 

I've owned and driven both extensively. A 928 GT or a 928 GTS will outperform a TR, but not a 512TR IMHO.......whereas the earlier 928's can't even touch a TR, especially if they were ZF equipped cars.

 

Even having this debate just shows why it is impossible to explain the essence of a Ferrari to a Porsche guy.

I have a Porsche and I really enjoy them, but comparing anything to a Testarossa on the basis of performance numbers is like comparing the Mona Lisa to another painting based on the quality of the oil paint used.

Ferraris are not about performance numbers, except to kids debating in the lunch room. A Ferrari is about the experience itself, and the Testarossa, above almost all else IMHO, delivers the quintessential Ferrari experience.

 

Well said.

 

This is both 100% right and 100% wrong. Porsche guys and Ferrari guys are cut from different colors of the same cloth. Porsche guys make the exact same comments about Corvette owners who typically pay 50% less for a car with the same "performance numbers." Both offer intangible items (that are obviously real as they are reflected in the values) that go beyond the numbers. On paper no one in their right mind would ever buy a Cayman S over a Corvette. And yet, thousands of buyers do it every year. People buy cars like these because of the way they feel and in that case...Porsches and Ferraris feel very different.

 

My TR has seen at speeds high 17X and pulling away from 360 and remaining on the tail of 430.

 

I own all three... 996, C5 and sexy TR. my vote goes to the TR.

 

Hmmm, I'm a bit confused Curt. I have read your posts in that Rennlist thread:



Quote:
Originally Posted by tv
I don't know what that means ^^, the 928 was never a luxobarge, never a choice between an SL and a 928. I was being kind to fcars when I compared this 928 price to the 308. The 928 was a better car in every respect to the 3X8's. The 928 was always in the running with the TR.

Read some previous threads, like the nardo top speed runs, the magazine comparisons of the day. And I was there in showrooms in 1980 comparing these cars. Even the European press agrees.

The 928 had the most luxury, no doubt, but it also was at the very top for performance, and build quality. Fcars had the marketing.

Then your reply:

"I will agree that the 928 has superior quality to the FCars of its generation and for the bang for the buck it's still a great buy (under $5000 for performance)..

But to compare a 2 seater mid engine car with the 2+2 928 (albeit similar price approx $40k) isn't the same. Performance may be equal (will give you that). But the different cars all out sports car versus GT cruiser. Also comparison made to the 911 and turbo which is more apt. OK.. I'll submit 400i then. 2+2, similar engine layout.. (interesting though that 308 maintain 75 to 100% of their value on average versus 25% or less 928)

928 and TR. Beg to disagree. 1990 testarossa $181k 195 MPH dreamcar, 1990 928 $78k Handling more nimble perhaps.. higher top end in TR"


There are no comparisons to GTR/McLarens, so you get a BS call on that. You also get the BS call in answer to your original question, which is can the 928 of similar vintage (not an early '78-84, before Testarossa's were even produced) hang performance wise with a TR. You answer that yourself in your Rennlist quote. Yours was strictly a performance question, not what retains more of its original value, not what feels better subjectively, not what was more exclusive at the time or even now. And you volunteer that the 928 has superior build quality in comparable years.

Some of us frequent multiple forums because we have multiple passions, also helps keep trolls accountable.

ScoobySteve gets this the most right by my reckoning, here's to variety!

 

Hummmmm.... 928 or Testarossa .... which would you rather be driving?, period. TR!!! Sorry "P" lovers.

 

Besides all this 928 vs. Testarossa nonsense, everybody knows that real Porsches are rear engined air-cooled cars.

My daily driver is a 1996 993 Targa.

 

You're right! I always thought these cars were lame imposters
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The first one is OK, I guess - it is sortof rear engined.

I don't know what that second one is -

 

LOL!

 

That was your first mistake I've owned two Porsches and I won't even go to that sight. Posters there seem to be quite childish and close minded. Not all of them, but too many for my comfort level.

And ask any 928 owner (doesn't mater what model/year) if they would trade you their 928 for your Testarossa. I think that would end any argument.

IMHO

Joe

 

And ask any 928 owner (doesn't mater what model/year) if they would trade you their 928 for your Testarossa. I think that would end any argument.

You got that right!!!


Ago



Joe[/QUOTE]

 

I'm kinda with KDS on this one.

I've only owned 2 P-Car 928s, my first an '87 S4 and the second an '83 euro S. Have never owned a Testarossa, but have been a passenger in a handful & have come to appreciate them.

As far as "hanging?" My S4 seemed only a hair less quick and no more than a dozen mph less fast at the top. It braked VERY well. It handled like a dream. I was NEVER afraid to put it into whatever gear and drop the gas pedal to readline in any circumstance. Let me re-phrase that - I was NEVER in fear that the car would have mechanical issues if I did such a thing. With a TR? Hell, I'd always be so worried that something in the driveline would self-destruct under normal spirited use such that it would take all the fun away.

Still want to try a 550 or 575 and see if Ferrari could make me change GT stables...

 

I am sorry gentlemen. I have had the privledge of working on both. If I was going to choose one based on performnance and "feel".......Testarossa all the way!!! Joe Zaff has it right about the "Ferrari expierence". The only true Porsche in my opinion that is worthy of challenging the TR is the 1987 Slant Nose 930 Turbo. With a little work as stated earlier, will clock over 200mph. (If your rocks are big enough to push it to the limit) The 930 is a sibling of the 934/935 Porsche race cars. Add the goodies I have mentioned, and you got a major league TR killer. Not stock, but tweaked and perfected. Same applys to the TR, add some goodies (see Bob Norwood for these) and get out of the way. The TR will rock and then some!!